'40 Ford - new frame + IFS: Anyone done this ?

Hi Guys,

I've got a '40 Ford 2Dr sedan with a hacked+welded crossmember, chopped-up wishbone front end, and dubious motor mounts. The work was done back in the 80's to install a 302 Ford w/C4 tranny.

I want to make it safer and more reliable to drive. A local rod fab shop advised that the cleanest way to do the job right is to pull the body and start with a replacement frame, install a new suspension...(Mustang II ?)..and use the current drivetrain to save money. Their opinion was that trying to weld + reinforce the existing frame + crossmember wouldn't get you much and it's doubtful an IFS could be installed with the current engine position in the frame.

I'm trying to figure bill-of-materials $$$ needed for the job and the most expensive stuff I come up with are the frame kit, front+rear suspension parts, steering parts, exhaust, motor+trans mounts. I know it's not going to be cheap and with labor and misc parts I'm figuring it's at least a $10K+ job. Has anyone gone through this on their old hot rod ? I'm just curious if I've identified the most expensive parts and what your experience may have been.

Thanks

 

When I was working at my Dad's shop back in the 90s, we did this to a 37 Coupe. You can count on $10K in parts alone if you're doing a whole frame. If you get a full rolling chassis that has most of the parts already fit up and such, it will be that much less labor for the shop.

On that 37, we used a TCI rolling chassis with leaf springs on the rear and their own design IFS. The frame fit up very nicely. Of course that car had a Chevy drivetrain, so you might need to do a couple things different with the Ford engine. (Possibly a remote oil filter, and not sure about the front sump oil pan, for a couple things.)

That car rode/drove as good as any brand new car I've driven.

All that said, a dropped axle and properly split bones can really do surprisingly well on those cars.

 

Post up some pictures. It may not be as bad as you think. If it is bad, I would go with a stock frame and good ol transverse leaf with a dropped axle.

 

check out what Pete & Jakes and TCI offers for full chassis

 

It all depends on what you REALLY want and where your heart lies. Right now if you aren't REALLY attached to that car you can most likely sell it and buy another one with all the modifications done correctly for not a ton more. I'd figure 15K at least either way for someone else to completely sort out your car.

Scenario One- you have all the sheetmetal pulled and the chassis under the car repaired with new motor mounts, wishbone mounts, trans mount, steering mount and shock mounts. While you are at that you should add a dropped axle, new spring, upgrade the brakes & steering and add new shocks. You will put the engine & trans back and probably need to go through the wiring to be safe. All this really adds up shop hours if you aren't doing it your self. I know personally as my dad had most of this done to his '36 Ford Phaeton recently- and he was doing the dirty work- just was getting help with the welding and fab necessary and it added up quick- it just does no matter who you are.

Scenario Two- Go with a completely new chassis all set up for Mustang II suspension and 9-inch rearend. Even is you can reuse your entire driveline the cost of all the parts and the labor to swap chassis and install your old parts is close to what I said earlier.

The dilema here is I've seen decent '40 Ford Sedans with either completely and correctly installed early dropped axle suspension or Mustang II suspension for 18-22K.

Now you have to decide if that's the car you REALLY want to spend that money on or find a different car. With my dad's '36 it was time to add a dropped front end (that he actually bought out from a different '36 25 years ago) and replace the tired flathead with ZERO compression in 4 cylinders with the 61 Corvette 283 he pulled out of his '32 3-window coupe. So the parts weren't that expensive- but while he was at it he went through the whole brake system, replaced the '36 steering with a '39 box & mount, added tube shocks to the rear, had the rear spring reworked to lower the car, had the firewall fixed from years of hot rodding termites (lots of extra holes), new wiring, new exhaust, relocated battery box, new radiator and all the little stuff under the hood like belts and hoses. He definitelty wanted to keep this car and the results are something still ultra traditional, but it actually runs and drives a TON better. Was it cheap- no, was it worth it- TOTALLY! The car was painted by Gene Winfield in 1962 so it was a special car- any other easily replaced car it would have been a tough call to go through it all.

The car during the re-do- and after.

 

I used a roadster shop chassis.

 

Still doing new fat fendered chassis after all these years. Ask Hot-Rod Roadster how they fit and work, he's running one of mine under his 40. Gary at Cornhusker Rod And Custom

 

I don't have an IFS but heres a few pic's of what Cornhusker Rod and Custom built for me. Gary has done about 6 chassis for me all go straight down the road. Gary

 

I like this cornhusker unit, looks very tidy from the photos, I like the route you have gone up front, I would prefer to go that route as opposed to an IFS, I would also rather have gone with the monster drums as well, the frame looks well boxed also, Keep in mind, some events won't let an IFS equipped car in, and will poo poo on your discs as well. This keeps the tone straight.

 

without starting a pissing match here
why don't you just look here
www.chassisengineeringinc.com
they make bolt in IFS and rear-end mounting kits
and all of the other parts you need for your chassis.
plus they got the I-beam axle, crossmember and parts if that's the way you want to go.

 

I have a 39 sedan with stock frame and Chassis Engineering components and a magnum straight axle [dropped up frront] and it goes straight down the road with know problems. Chassis Engineering has got some quality parts and prices are in line also ..my.02

 

Check out Jerry Kugel. I understand he is making a '40 rolling chassis now and his IFS is sweet. That's what I have for the front of my coupe.

 

Appreciate the suggestions. Here are a couple pics of the existing XFrame and Wishbone mods. I guess I'll have to sort out whether it's worth putting the money + effort into this car or getting another.

Thanks

 

Wow.....

 

OK, you posted pics of this in another thread. I would source a stock frame, buy all the Chassis Eng mounts and a dropped axle. Build a roller and swap the body over.

 

I agree with Tman, here is a pic of my chassis. Modified stock frame, Chassis Engineering dropped axle and spring, 37-40 split wishbone, 46-48 spindles:

 

these guys make rails for many company's (several that have been mentioned)
Alec is a top notch guy

http://arkhotrods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=2

 

these are all the same answers you got the first time you asked this question. the rod shop wants to get maximum $ out of you. a new scratchbuilt frame for a '40 is about $5k before adding trinkets like axles and brakes. you need to disassemble what you have, repair the damage and install a realistic, drivable setup from reliable vendors, most of which are listed above. Hellonwheels started with a pretty bad chassis, cut and welded in replacement sections himself, then finished it off with basic reliable parts. elbow grease is the substitute for barrels of $.

 

Ding,ding.ding!!! We have a winner and I'll bet it will be the most economical solution in the end.

Frank

 

I would look on craigslist or a swap meet for an original frame. I talked with Pete and Jakes one time about a complete swap they also suggested an original frame. They really are a pretty good design

 

WOW! And I thought mine was f#%&ed up!

 

WTF that #4 picture is scary.what does the rear look like at the kick up that is where they rot.might want to check it out too.Bought a original western rot free 36 frame off ebay blasted it and we put chassis engineering MII and rear parallel leaf.Glad I used an original frame all the mounting holes are there and in the right places Got about $3500 in it

 

I installed a Fatman frame over 30,000 miles ago. Straight & rigid, very strong.

 

I agree with T Man and Hell on Wheels, and I bought a chassis. Would not do it again, you can get a lot for your money with a clean stock frame, an ifs is not all it's cracked up to be. Next one I do will be a straight and bones. BTW you have a horse shoe up your ass, that frame is toast, what are your favorite 6 numbers from 1 thru 52, I need some of your lucky mojo for the big game.

 

black car has chassis engineering bolt in MUSTII
woodie has weld in kit.
both have "clark M. Bates design" trailing arm rear suspensions..

the coupe has a drop axle with a 4 bar (speedway) and a CE? or speedway bolt in rear spring kit.. (bought the car this way)

If i were doing it all again.. I'd just buy Chassis engineering stuff.. (be it dropped axle or mustang II stuff)

I see that your in Delaware.. I hope this sedan isnt a red one I saw in the "newark" area

FYI..I do have a frame avail if you need it.

 

How the hell has that front end not come apart and killed someone yet?? SCARY!

If money is an issue, pull the body and re-build the chassis. Why buy another when you have a good start to rehabilitate.

Doc.

 

I rather have to agree with Tman on this one. This would probably be the most economical way to build a safe and reliable chassis that would fit the traditional mold and still drive and handle well.

Personally I'd check out and price out a number of options before I committed to anything.

You could go from the super low end concept of buying a stock frame and having it correctly modified to fit the engine and trans you have and using some of your original suspension pieces to a complete new shop built rolling chassis that you rolled under your body and started finishing the car.

Every time someone shows up with a project like this here on the HAMB we have a variety of Posters show up. Those of us who figure you may be just like us and have a slim budget for the rods or customs and then there are those who can only figure out how to spend mega bucks on a car and only see that concept. If you have the bucks and want to spend them so be it but if you are like many of us step back and take a good look at the whole picture and figure out how to build the best and and safest car for a reasonable cash outlay.

 

Several friends used new chassis from P&J. A lot of value for the money.

Others I know have used the Chassis Engineering parts. They are also satisfied.

 

Absolutely, 48 chevy and Tman are correct,, Just cause you write a check to a chassis guy does not mean you have solved any problems with the stroke of that pen, you still will end up being an expert or the owner of a poor handling car. A stock frame, straight axle and set of bones are one of the best ways to go. So you don't know much about them, learn. Learning before purchasing is cheap. I'm totally neutral in the traditional vs. modern wars, I like them both, however, if given the decision of m2 vs straight and bones I would go bones and this forum has nothing to do with my choice, I think I would be dollars ahead, smarter and more reliable. Find a chassis shop in your neck of the woods that does traditional front ends, have a look at their wares, have them explain the system to you, become informed and you can make a good choice. One other thing, always try to look through the salesmanship, study the product not the claims.

 

And somebody drove it that way! I second the idea of sourcing a stock frame. There are some replacement parts available for the cross members. The rails have a tendency to develop rot where the X member rivets back into the rail at the rear. It was a bad place for mud to collect but it usually is an easy cut and reweld. My cross members and front axle were shot so I went MII front and parallel leaf rear. Nowhere near $10k into getting a roller.