How B.A. of a Flathead Ford v8 is realistic on the street?

B.A.= Bad ***....


Yeah....I'm talking about building a flathead Ford. I realize flathead's ain't cheap. They are almost insanely expensive IMHO. I was originally thinking about just buying a runner and cleaning it up.....but I met a old timer that "SEEMS" pretty knowledgeable about motors. We got to talking and he offered to help me build a engine. The only problem is we aren't really seeing eye to eye on what a street motor is. I'm basically thinking of something mild and reliable. 2 carbs. Mild cam. stock internals. He wants to go full bore and build a 'full race motor"... Merc crank, 4 carbs, cheater heads, port the block, Blah blah blah.....sometimes I zone out..... All I hear is $$$$$$$$$$$.... The thing is. All I have to do is pay for parts and machine work. He say's he's got a cheap merc crank for me and he will port and help me ***emble the motor. Should I go for it? I really think he is serious about 3 or 4 carbs. Which from what I have read is to much carb. he say's I can get away with 4 carbs by running the smaller v8-60 carbs. I don't even know what that means really . Should I let this guy help me? How much is too much? Do you think he's just trying to have me bank roll his idea of a race motor? I don't want to piss him off and loose the connection, as he seems to be validly interested in helping me...I'm just not really sure what I am getting into. I've only built OHV motors before. SBC = cheap. So I feel a little over my head.

I guess I'm just not really sure what kind of flathead to build....

thanks for any advice.

 

Mine
49 - 53 block (baked & tumbled)
Drilled for oil filter
3 3/8 bore
4 1/8 merc crank
Ross forged pistons
Isky 400 jr cam
Johnson lifters
Stainless valves
New seats
New adjustable timing gears
Milling oil pump
Fenton headers
Merc timing cover ...(fully poli$hed)
Thickston intake …...(fully poli$hed)
Old Edelbrock heads (fully poli$hed)
New 97's
Old Mallory
New water pumps
New clutch

With all machine work -bearings - guides-springs-seals-gears-gaskets….bla bla bla….im at just under five grand and I had the block and lifters and did my own porting.

You can save a lot if you don’t.
Get in a big hurry
Polish stuff
Stroke it & therefore need $> floating bearings <$

 

Sounds like his ego is bigger than your wallet can stand. Ask your self what your going to do with this motor before you build it, just cruise around town, go to a couple runs locally or go racing? After all it's your build isn't it?...Good luck either way you go.

 

I'm just getting started on building three at one time, 4 X 3 5/16....You can do it at a reasonable cost. Though not cheap. Watch for good prices on stuff

Pat

 

V8-60 carbs are Stromber 81's. 4 good cores will run about a grand. Plus rebuild kits, linkage ,manifold...I would immagine a couple grand just for the induction system alone.

My Dad does a LOT of flatheads and a bone stock 59AB will run around 2500.00.

Merc crank means Merc pistons- more money
Nice heads- 500.00-up
Merc crank alone runs 300.00ish
adjustable lifters- 200.00
distributor, headers, aluminum timing gear, gaskets, valves, guides, bearings, clutch...it all adds up. Oh, and you gotta have a good rebuildable core, too

With no "hook ups" I could see an easy 5,000.00 on up for what your describing. Not trying to talk you out of it, just saying.




I do still have a runner 59AB for sale

 

If you want the best flathead for the street, supercharging is the way to go. I would strongly suggest you buy Joe Abbin's second book on blown flatheads. He has done a lot of research and built a lot of engines, and the book is full of real facts. IIRC, there are dyno tests (both blown and unblown) on a about 6 or 7 engines in it. I can summarize it quite easily. Unblown, it's very difficult to get more than 200 HP out of a streetable flathead. Blown, it's possible to get over 300 HP without resorting to exotic parts and tricks. Also, unblown, 3 carbs were superior to 2 every time (he never looked at 4; the manifolds are very expensive and hard to find). In addition, the old hi-rise manifolds (Thickston etc.) come in a poor second to more modern equipment.

 

To back tubman up, Joe Abbin is not just a flathead expert and good writer, he's actually an engineer. The man knows his flathead **** and backs it up with facts.

His "driver" is a '49 Merc with a blown flathead. How's 335 HP and 19 MPG grab ya? That's what he says he's getting, and I believe him.

Yes, I bought his book!

 

First of all, when an old timer says full race cam, it's a warm street cam by todays standards. If you go through a place like delta, in tacoma, you should be able to get a stocker reground to hot specs for under $100

My old neighbor puts out one or 2 cars every year, and he said before that he wouldnt settle for a flathead smaller than 296 cubes ever again, they just dont have enough poop for a street coupe or roadster.

Anouther thing to think, is pistons are the really only cost for a big bore motor, the bore usually needs to be done anyway, and it doesnt cost a lot to punch it further over.

Carb wise, 3 carbs can actually run better than 2 because they can be set up progressive, meaning normally you are only running off of 1 or 2 carbs until you stick your foot into it. 4 on anything short of a hot race car is unnessicery otherwise more than 3 compainies would have built them

Also porting is labor intensive, but really only costs pennies, if you do it your self

Really, relieving, merc crack, big valves, bore and pistons are the only expenses that will cost more if you do most of the work youself, After all, you probably had planned an aftermarket intake, heads, and cam already

I guess it's up to you what you want to build, but the main thing is put the word out and keep your eyes open, the first merc crank i got a few years back was FREE, i pulled a stock industrial flattie out of the rain, that had been outside as long as i remember, and all the whole motor needs is a bore. Anouther time i bought a cheap flattie for the navarro 2 pot intake and it had a set of johnson adjustables in it too. There are still old timers out there that have sets of NIB jahns pistons on their shelves. There are deals, on the expencive stuff, you just need to look

 

Thanks guys this is all really good info. I want to sound like I know a little more then I really do when I talk to him next.

Basically I want some thing that is hotter than stock. but not something that is a finicky race motor. something fairly stout....but nothing crazy. Does that make sense? I don't want to constantly tune stuff and have ****ty driveability. I've got a muscle car for that I'd like to get some longevity out of it, as I plan to put a lot of miles on the car...I'm not attached to any amount of carbs or a merc crank. I do know that motors cost money. I spent 4,000 bucks on a 460 ford last summer.....So 5,000 grand isn't really out of the question.....It will just take me some time to get the money all together.

2 questions.

Can a 21A flathead and a 59AB be swapped for each other in the same ch***is without any major modifications to the car?

What style motor should I be looking for? 8ba? 59AB?

thanks

 

Take your time , with the knowlege available to you here a killer flathead will be yours . Get yourself a ride in someones rod that has a bad *** flathead , to give yourself perspective .... You will hear lots of opinions , but the proof is in the pudding .
Good Luck !

 

First, where the F do you work if you can throw money at motors like that???, Second all flatheads are identical from '32 up to '53 in how they bolt in with the exeption of the '49 to 53 car type water pumps, but truck pumps can be put in place easily.

As for motor some racers LOVE the 59ab type blocks, and they look better too, but as distributers go aftermarket ones for 8ba are cheaper, because they are a more conventional style. For what you are doing it doesnt matter, just try to get a big bore, post war motor, and beware, the 221's were regularly bored out to use 239 pistons for rebuilds, and are hard to tell apart sometimes

 

I'm self-employed, single, no kids, and have no problem eating Top Ramen for weeks.

BTW thanks for answering my questions ****gy.

 

..........What kind of car is this bad *** flathead going into?.......Big Bad John

 

You didnt tell us what you are putting the FH in and what the car will be used for?

I run a blown 289ci FH in my Deuce 3W.

She runs hard, but you get used to the power quickly. Its totally streetable and have put thousands of miles on a blown combo no sweat.

As someone said if you want power.....once you go blown, you can never go back to a NA Flathead.

Rat

 

I take it this will be apart of your build tread soon... now that your ride is sitting on all four wheels.
I went the more mild type of Flathead, 276ci C69A with merc crank, L100 cam, zephyr springs, Johnson lifters, 8BA valves and rods, Ross pistons and grant rings. All that was only $4500 CAD
Also keeping the look simple, Edmunds 2x2, and v8-60 smooth alum heads

 

Yep! Rat once again built one hell of a Flathead!




HC.

 

If this guy has Merc cranks sitting around he will doante to the project, and if he knows how to port and polish, it seems to me that you could learn a LOT from working with the guy. In the 60's what we called a "full race cam " is just a decent proformer today.

There are a lot of old guys out there that just can't build another car but sure know their **** and are EAGER to shatre what they know so it doesn't die with them.

 

32-36 had lower front mounts.

Easy way to tell a 59AB is it will have a big "59" cast on top of the bell...59A's and earlier said nothing

 

????

 

Just be sure you're building for the right reasons. A kid with a Honda Civic and $1000 for bolt on parts will blow the doors off of a Duece coupe with a hot Flathead all day long.

Nothing has the visual appeal or sounds as good but race people in your own cl*** or prepare to be disapointed.

 

That makes it easier for all the hot chicks to get in.

 

Keep in mind that the '50s version of a full race flathead, with four 97s, wild cam, etc, usually idled like **** and was barely streetable; the only reason the owner drove it daily was that it was his only car. As already stated, be realistic about what you expect out of the engine. Four 97s may look cool, but will most likely be more of a pain in the *** than they'd be worth.

 

$5000 really isn't that large of a number to spend on a complete rebuilt motor with your bolt-ons, you'll spend half that building a decent small block chevy

as always keeping your eyes peeled for deals will always save you money, i picked up a 51 flathead running out of a woody with edelbrock heads, intake, dual 94 carbs, cast fenton headers, transmission intact $825. fella that bought the car was having his mechanic put in a small block ford for more power and that old motor was just "junk" to him.

i'll also say if your looking to soup up a flathead for power, you'll probably be disappointed, triple that $5000 and that kid in his honda will still be blowing your doors off

 

Yep, it's going in my A coupe.....my basic plan for the car is a daily driver. I don't usually drive more than 5 or ten miles a day.

I've got my GTO for going fast. My 72 Blazer for ****py weather, And A 79 ford for hauling. I need a smaller daily driver. That is all.

Yeah, I knida think that is the case. He has MS and is getting up there....

I know compared to modern stuff it will be slow. But I'm not looking for a drag car. I've got a 67 GTO that is plenty fast.

I'm building this model A as a time machine.

 

V-8 60 heads fit on an 8BA?

 

Pete1 can do you a real hot cam...

 

What wrong with the engine you already have? If it's runnable, used it. Then hop it up as you go. That has always been the wisest choice.

 

I'm dying to sink my teeth into a Flathead powered Hot Rod. As much as I love the idea of building a balls to the wall flathead I think that after it was all said and done, I would baby it because I would know how much I have sank into it and would want to protect my investment. I also know that the 8ba that powered my '52 Merc moved it along nicely and it was only .60 over with a single 94 up top. It didn't smoke the tires but it's ran alright I think. So if that was transferred over to a lighter smaller Hot Rod I think I could get into a little bit of trouble with it at least right?

For my '33 I plan on running a 8ba converted to a 59 look with stock 59 heads (or Denvers if I can find them) a Merc rank, .60 over, 2x2 intake. I plan on trying to hit the 150-180 range if I can but I'm not all that concerned with it too much because I know that the engine has it's limitations especially if I plan on running it on the street. I'll probably enlist the help of Chris and his dad to help me make decision and I'll try to be as involved in the process as possible so if I can port and polish something myself then I'll do it. I'm going for a mid 40's look so the flathead doesn't have to be all out it just has to operate nicely and look and sound cool. I'll eventually build a Hemi Coupe for something I can roast the tires with but the Flathead will be more about the Soul of Hot Rodding then the visceral thrill of high revs and such.

I think a mild engine will suite your needs just fine and will save yourself the headache of finicky issues that arise from pushing the limits of a flathead or any engine really. As long as it's peppy and sounds cool then really that's where your most bang for your buck is going to be. The extra 30-50hp is only going to be marginally cooler and your *** will still get left behind by every body else if you spend 5k or 2500. Remember your 250 hp flathead is still slower then my wife's 2.0T P***at. When you're talking flathead it should never be about maximizing the power unless it's an all out race situation because you're just wasting money. I'm the kind of guy that can equally appreciate a really nice $2500 flathead that was put together nicely and used smart parts as a dude that went out and spent 16k on Orosco's Ardun's.

Lastly you know how I know the lack of power is not an issue with flathead and their cool factor? Chris has got to be the slowest ***hole on this site and his cars are still cool.

 

Your such a ****


My 33 pickup has a babbit bearing 1934 221 in it. It is .030 over and aside from the Winfield cam, adjustable lifters, crab distributor (stock Ford), headers and dual 81's it is bone stock. No porting, no larger valves, stock stroke and compression. And it still sounds and moves nicley.

My A roadster is getting a 59AB with a Merc crank, heads, dual 97's, cam, ect. It will be more souped up in a car that weighs a thousand pounds less. So I bet it will really wail!




Sure, my dailey driver Subaru outback would murder either one at any light...but like JJ said thats not what flatheads are all about.

 

The motor I have is seized.....

Get out of my head JJ.

Hopefully, you and I will be meeting soon so I can take that extra engine you have off your hands.