Calling Cadophiles, Let's Build A Killer Cadillac Mill...

I'm talking 331, 365 and 390 here. My intention is to build a 390 with higher than factory performance while retaining every day reliability and driveability. Well, not really "build", more like bolt on performance. I'm not going inside the block for now.

I've always been a Chevy man. But I have always dreamed of a killer vintage Cadillac engine. First, I just love Cadillacs in general. Old or new. My wife has a newer Cad now. When I was five or six, I remember my grandpa's old El Dorado. For sure late sixties car in the mid seventies. I remember being fascinated by that Cadillac shield. I would stare at it and run my fingers over it. Something about those birds...And to a six year old kid, that car was HUGE. A giant luxurious chariot.

When I first got my pickup, I wanted something like a mix of custom and hot rod Cadillac truck that Cadillac never built. While I love the 261 in it currently, I always wanted something more serious under the hood. More power, more flash and more pizzazz. My goals have changed a little, evolved is really more correct here, but more of a full on mild custom pickup with Cadillac power.

I've had the pickup a year and have made nice progress. I've done a ton of stuff, you can check my King Of Trucks thread for details. Well, I found the engine I want. A decent runner, totally stock except for an alternator swap which I'll change back to generator straight away. Since the engine is already a runner, let's focus on ignition, carbs, intake and exhaust. And let's focus on a time frame of very early sixties here, say nothing newer than 1961 or 1962.

I think magnetos are super cool. I don't know much about vintage aftermarket distributors for Cads. What are the options here for ignition?

For carbs, the 390 is a single four barrel carbed engine. So, I guess the options are single four, double duece (swayze crazy, lol), triple duece, double fours, or four twos. Let's talk about the pros and cons of each. Remember, I need that magic combination of dead nuts reliable every day driveability combined with that seriousness that a factory setup just doesn't have. I drive my pickup, A LOT. I NEED driveability. And no blocked off carbs either. That's just gay.

Naturally, I'll need an intake under those carbs. I've seen some older threads with Cad speed equipment. What is available? What is repopped? Probably no sense discussing mega dollar unobtainable intakes except just for fun. And I'm certainly not opposed to fun.

For exhaust, pretty simple here, what is the best diameter piping for sound without sacrificing performance?

And if you're still reading, I've got a couple of minor questions as well. In regards to cooling, do these engines tend to run hot or not? The size difference in the stock '55 chevy truck radiators from six to v8 is not that much. Will the stock radiator be up to the task of cooling the 390? Secondly, in regards to the generator, are the cad generators the same as chevy? I know they are both GM, but for instance, is my '58 chevy 12 volt generator similar in size and mounting configuration to the Cad 390 generator?



Finally, this being Thanksgiving, I want to say "thanks". Thanks for the hamb. Thanks to you guys, the people of the hamb. I've made a ton of great friends here. And I'm not talking casual aquaintances. I mean real friends. Good stand up guys. Guys who go out of their way to help virtual strangers doing deeds above and beyond the call of duty simply to help their fellow man. Its awesome.

And thanks to my club, the Iron Lords. The greatest bunch of guys anywhere. And I mean that. Each and every guy in our club eats, breathes and sleeps righteousness. In cars and deeds. You guys are all rulers and I'm proud to be a part of it all. Thanks!

 

I'd like to hear what others have to say on this one. As I have a 390 in the Caddy right now with a dual quad intake waiting for it (deciding on what carbs) and the original 365 waiting to be rebuilt in my garage...

 

I'm down with the thread!, I have 365 out of a 58 limo, 310hp. w/stock 4bl., have a Crager intake with 4 97's complete w/the funky linkage, Think it will find it's way into a 22 buick roadster I found out in Az., coming back from Viva... a true $25. find! "04"

 

Here's a 57' 365" for your pleasure. This motor was dead nuts reliable. The 57' Cadillac rear axle was utilized being a 3.08 ratio the truck still got apprx. 18 mpg with a M-20 Muncie as the ******. I had the waterpump sent out to a reputable rebuilder on the east coast who machines out the casting and presses in a modern bearing/seal/impellor ***embly which I highly suggest. I went thru 3 leaky pumps till I had that procedure done. It also ran a bit cooler with the modern impellor installed. The motor would never run over 190 sitting in traffic on a hot day.

 

....Not to mention it hauled *** in that truck.

 

Thanks for the info Kirk, I appreciate it!

 

I'm not aware of any speed parts being repopped for the early caddys. I think O'briens has valve covers and valley covers, but thats about it. Let me know if you find anything, I've got a '60 390 that could use a 3x2.

 

who revamps the water pumps on the east coast? got a 331 going together and that sounds like a good idea. been through the leaky "rebuilt" pump issue before.

 

My Cad started out as a 331 then I found a stroker crank and bored it out to run 12-1 pistons this brought cubes up to 400. The cam came from Crane it's a ultra hi rpm drag with 485 lift. I had Thomas mag. rocker arms but they hit valve covers so i had a set of adjustable Smith push rods made. Heads have bigger valves and are ported and polished. I ran Hilborn fuel injection at first then went to a Horne 4 carb. manifold and finally a Cad. 3 carb. set up which runs great. I had a Mallory dual point running off a Jacobs ignition. Then I recurved a stock Cad distributor and installed a Petronics unit in place of points and hooked that into my Jacobs system, man did that make a huge difference in power. I run this through a Muncie wide ratio 4 speed and an early Olds. 3:42 rear. My power curve starts at 3600 rpm up to 6500 and at times have hit 7 grand. I run a 3 inch exhaust system with mufflers from a sprint car , on long trips the noise gets to ya but around town it has a sound unlike any rod i've ever driven.

 

somospeed is supposed to be bringing back an offy multi carb intake, but no info on pricing or availability yet...

 

For what they want for the SBC set up I can get a eldorado 3x2 and have enough left over for 4 speed adapter. I don't even want to know what the caddy intake is gonna cost. Do they sell just intakes? I noticed all the pricing is for intakes with carbs and they look like the speedway carbs that everyone complains about.

 

I will be watching this one. My horse before the cart a 62' 390 he**** engine.

 

I've been working on a 390 engine build for next project.
Here are a few new parts which I've found available through several sources:

New intake 2x2 for 55-62 Cadillac motor is being made by Offenhauser through distributors like VintageSpeed or http://www.exeterautosupply.com/Docs/Offenhauser%20catalog.pdf
Finned valley covers from Eelco (NW Speed) and Moon.
Valve covers available through Offy, Moon. PML has new ones with a modern look to them like their SBC covers.
Mag-look distributor available through Speedway, it's all electronic Joe Hunt unit.
Cams available through others like Egge, Isky, etc.

More, this is just off the top...

 

Check out the on-line build pics of HomemadeHardtop57, when he did his '31 roadster on '32 rails, might be just what you're looking for. I rode in the car, and it was a blast.

 

Here's the waterpump rebuilder that I used out of NY. Arthur Gould (631) 269-0093 It was less than a 2 week turn around.

 

That RotoFaze is cool!!! I dont imagine I'd be lucky enough to find one of those...

 

Reading it now...thanks for the tip!

 

Some good info in here already. Still looking for more specific pros and cons info on carb selection, both type and numbers.

 

Real32 thats funny you have a pics of those Thomas rockers. I sold those on E-bay a couple years ago.
Terd didn't read your whole post but if you have a 390 you have from the factory 325 hp and 430torque you have a monster for the street now. The comp is 10.25 to 1 so you wouldn't up that and the torque is under 5500rpm.

A killer cad for me is 390 DRE 2x4, Spalding Flamethrower, 5 speed and soon some worked over heads and roller cam. I'm close to firing it up in a couple of weeks just before the body goes on for the last time. I'll nickle plate the VC's later.

 

thanks kirk, i think he's the guy who a 49 cad fuel pump rebuild for a friend.

 

Heres some of mine.

 

Joe probably still makes them......

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8282&highlight=cadillac

 

Isky is grinding new cams for Caddys, again. They aren't listed in their catalogs, or on their website, though. It sounds like they bought alot of new cam blanks for many of the old engines, (Buick nailheads, Olds, Y-blocks etc.) from another cam company that went out of business. Engle, maybe???

I just got a NEW, not reground E-2, through the local speedshop. I don't remember the guy's name at Isky, but Stan at "The Hot Rod Shop" in Rockford ILL. had to talk with a guy at Isky to get it ordered. Also got a cam blank for future use. The specs are .448 valve lift and 264 degrees duration for both intake and exhaust. It's a solid lifter cam, so I'll have to change to adjustable rockers.

 

Saw that before, thanks mate!!!

Got a link? THanks!!




So now I have a couple of options as of today...

'61 Cad 390, supposed to be a runner with no smoke and no noise, was an auto trans engine, includes apart hydro trans...$700
'54 Cad 331, "maybe broken piston skirts", was a manual trans engine, no trans but includes manual flywheel and driveshaft...$150
'55 Cad 365, low mileage engine and trans combo with one stuck piston with a hole on top where a moeron tried to free it up with a hammer and screwdriver , complete from pan to carb including ps a/c and hydro trans...buddy deal


The 390 should be a bolt in and go type deal if its everything the seller says it is. The 331 is a total unknown having been stored for 30+ years inside, but is cheap. The 365 will at least need a piston and maybe a sleeve(?), but is also cheap coming from my boy Deltron.

I think I want the 390 for a few reasons. It should be a runner with no work or cost involved outside of the swap. Best performance of the three. I think I would have way more than the price difference having to be put into the other two to get going.

I'm going to check the 390 out next weekend. So, until then, any and all info is appreciated. Anything I should look for or look out for?

 

The flywheel on the '54 engine is worth the asking price for the whole package. If the bell housing is still there, so much the better.

 

That's what I figured. So long as I have enough cash, I'll probably buy the 331 as well as the 390. Bonus #1 is the 331 comes with a drive shaft. Bonus #2 is the 331 has the cursive script valve covers which I like much more than the later block letter valve covers. They look awesome chromed!! Bonus #3 is sell the 331 for a free manual flywheel and drive shaft.

 

31Modelo, did you dimple your valve covers? If so, how did you do it?
Thanks, Allen

 

Here's what I'm putting the '62 Cad 390 in.....

 

Im putting a 1960 390 in my model A. I got the factory 3x2s to top it off. I used a Wilcap adapter to put a saginaw 4 speed behind it.