57 F100 with Camaro Clip engine placement

I have a couple of questions for the HAMB members. I've already put a camaro front clip in my 57 F-100, and am now working on engine placement. I have a 351w with a C6 trans, I understand the importance of pinion angle and believe that the engine and transmission need to be perpendicular to the rear end.

Question one: does the motor/trans need to be perfectly inline with the rear end? Or can I just center it in the engine bay/crossmember?

Question two: The windsor has a rear sump to work with the camaro clip, but it looks like I still can't move the motor far enough forward to not have to modify the firewall. I've heard of people cutting up their firewall to make room, so I'm ***uming this is ok, but I'm does anyone have any tips or advice on doing this.

Thanks in advance.
Steve

 

Depends, not all rear axles have perfectly centered pinions. You might be closer than you think.
Lots of Mopar muscle cars moved the engine over to clear the brakes and such.

 

I used a Pontiac motor in the Camaro clip on my '58 F100. I moved the engine and trans forward about and inch, and to the p***enger's side about an inch and a half to clear the steering column. You will still need to notch the firewall. Your other choice would be to move the whole subframe forward and lengthen the wheelbase. I've seen people do this too.

 

Well I kept the stock 9" and it's definitely more to the right then center, probably by a couple of inches. I do plan on having the motor sit off center, just because the camaro runs the steering shaft right along the motor, and I want to make sure it has plenty of clearance as well as the oil filter and fuel pump are on that side, but I don't think it will align directly with the rear end, but as long as the motor/****** are straight, I've been told that's all that matters, it's ok to be off slightly, as long as it's straight. I think it goes back to pinion angle. if the motor/****** are straight, and the rear end is straight their angles should offset each other on the horizontal plane.

 

You just don't want the driveshaft straight from one to another.... so if you're engine is pointed down 4˚ then you want your rearend pointed up 4˚, that keeps your U joints working properly.

 

I did length the wheelbase when doing the clip, but I still don't have the room, so I guess I'll need to notch the firewall a bit. I only need about 2-3 inches back and 4-5 inches to the driver side to give enough room for the head.

This will take up some space in the cab but it's all behind the dash, so it seems like it shouldn't be a big deal, but...

 

if you went with a Chevy clip, go with a SBC. If you wanted to stay all Ford, why not the MII?

 

I heard I should go more then 3°, is there a hard and fast rule on the degrees the angles can be?

 

You will need to be very creative with your gas pedal / linkage also.

 

That doesn't surprise me, I think once I cut that frame the truck started requiring many creative solutions to get it to drivable, which of course is still a ways out.

 

I got the camaro clip for free, and I already had the motor and ******, plus the ****** already had the rear sump, so that wasn't suppose to be a problem.

 

The '57 rearend has the ring gear in the center, and uses identical length axles. The pinion is offset to the side from the factory.

The driveshaft shouldn't be straight. If it is, you did something wrong.

The actual angle of the driveshaft is not important (to an extent) but the comment earlier about 3 deg up and 3 deg down is correct (or 5 deg or whatever). Make them about the same but opposite. Due to suspension movement it will change slightly anyway. The side to side angle is no problem, so don't worry, they came that way.

 

I'm not sure who owns this truck or how it's powered but I do know it has a camero front clip. Maybe someone here can put you in contact with the owner

 

You're exactly right ... just keep your trans output shaft parallel to the pinion, and some horizontal offset won't make a difference.

 

Not sure how it's powered either, but I modeled how I lowered mine by his, I love how low it sits. Of course that in itself doesn't help my current situation.

That's good to hear, I had it on one opinion horizontal offset didn't matter, but on two, I feel much more comfortable setting it up that way.

For everyone who answered, Thank you!

 

Not a pickup, but I used a Pontiac Trans-Am subframe in my mid 50's Olds sedan. When I dropped the Olds engine in the cradle, I realized the factory had offset the engine about an inch and a half to the p***enger side. Great clearance for the forward mount steering box and firewall mounted brake system.

Just made sure both ends were fairly parallel going into the driveshaft at sensible degrees. It's held up to 10,000 miles of hard driving, burnout contests and 1/8th mile drags so far.

Ya got me beat on the subframe deal, I paid $20 for mine........

 

I have an underneath pic of that truck if you need to see how the mated the old and new clip together.

 

Yeah if you have a pic of his, I'd like to see it, this is how I did mine...

 

Level the frame and sit the engine and ****** level in the frame. Offset is fine as long as the engine and ****** are straight. Use a protractor and check the pinion angle and the ****** tailshaft angle. Should add up to 180 degrees. if not shim the rear end to correct the angle.

 

So cutting and modifying the firewall is not a big deal? Or at least no one seems concerned by it.

 

On my F100, I decided to indent the firewall the same amount on both sides. I made a large "H" cut in the firewall with a cutoff wheel, and pushed it back by hand until it cleared the heads. Then I tacked it in place and made some filler pieces to weld in. No big deal, just more time. As stated before, this throws your gas pedal for a loop and you'll need to improvise a new one.

 

Don't know if this helps, but here are a few pics of different intsalls. I believe the painted one is from the blue and white 60 ??

 

A buddy of mine has a '66 Chevy C10, and we just installed a cable throttle on his, that would make that mess a whole lot easier.

CJMAC, great pictures, I really like the first one, especially since it's my truck. LOL, that's funny where did you get that from?

 

constantly scrounging. Glad to hear your truck is coming together. Tim can help you with almost anything if you need it. Glad to help !!! Good luck. Thanks. Let me know if you need his number again.

 

Thanks CJ,

I actually talked to him last weekend, and will probably head over to his place this weekend. I'd like to talk to him about the radiator support, pick his brain, see how he's handling it. I have a couple of ideas, but since I've never done this before, it's always good to talk to a guy that has.

Steve

 

you should not have to cut your fire wall .iput 429in my 57 no problem and a rad from a90s explorer fits well front clip in mine is 69 marquis

 

if the front sump is a problem check out 76 and earlyer bronco oil pan they have rear sump

 

Is your Camaro clip front steer or rear? I did a lot of clips back in the 90's and can't picture why you need 4/5" into the firewall to clear a rear sump. That's a lot of setback.
On front steers I've notched the crossmember some to get a little more room ( not 4" more) but you do need to add some stout reinforcement if you take much out or the lower control arms will make the crossmember sag throwing the camber all to hell. I'd do about anything to keep from moving a pickup firewall back but then I'm 6'4" and legroom means a lot to me.

 

l used a wheelbarrow for my firewall to make my motor fit.

link to the build, as this computer l am using has no pics of the truck

Later

 

No big deal. Cut, fab, weld, repeat as necessary.