How long do 40s-50s era engines last?

I've heard conflicting opinions on this. Some folks claim 35-50k and others claim over 100k easy. I also have heard a babbit motor was only good for 50k before it needed to be rebabbitted. I remember hearing story about how farmers living on the Great Plains would only buy Packards and Cadillacs because the engines would last a lot longer than a plain old Chevy or Plymouth.

 

I've blown up several 1980s engines. Age aint nuthin but a number.

 

Just like today, the better they were taken care of the longer they lasted. A point of reference might be that back then a car with 50,000 miles on it would be shied away from as a used car whereas a modern car that's been well taken car of with 100,000 miles is considered a prime used car candidate.

Frank

 

My 56 chev 265 V8 has 150,000 and still going strong. Back in the day my Dad and uncles had a gravel and cement block business. There babbitt rod chev trucks would get a 100,000 miles and that was with a low speed rear gear. Then just like now you had to take care of you stuf, like changing oil. these was in the early 50ts.

 

As long as you keep oil in them. However, I might agree with the babbit (and add dippers) engines being prone to fail. (See comment on oil)

 

50 to 60 years so far !

 

no penzoil. Loooooong time.

 

The length of time a motor lasted in the '50s and '60s was more a function of how regularly the oil and filter were changed. Oil in those days needed to be changed every 1000 mi if you wanted any engine longevity. Poured babbit engines might have worn out more quickly but you could take out shims and tighten up the bearings.

 

There's a lot of variables to consider. Some are just freaks for longevity. I'm fond of the mid 50's Oldsmobile and dual range hydro tranny's. Bought one with 97K on it that hadn't been serviced properly. When I dropped the pan, the oil pick up screen was almost completely clogged. Just one spot the size of nickel for oil to come through. Motor was still running smooth and as quiet as a 55 Olds 324 can be.

Another stock plain Jane 55 Olds sedan I know of got a fresh timing chain and gears just ahead of 300K. Sold to guy who just had to have it and drove it happy for awhile before moving out of the area with it.

Guess they fall inline with the Cadillac and Packards mentioned earlier.

 

I had a discussion about this over 20 years ago (had to be that long because he has been dead for quite a while) with an 'old timer' who had been a Ford mechanic in the 40s-60s. His take was that engines back in the day lasted a long time if taken care of, just like other posters have said. He had said that turning back the odometer had been commonplace and that a lot of people with a used car that needed major service at relatively low miles were the victim of that practice. He wasn't a major BSer on other things, so I took his word for it (esp since he had worked at a dealership).

 

Like others have said, PM done on an engine will give more life. A little OT, but my 64 283 in my chevy has over 150K on the clock. It is a 1 ton chassis cab and used for hauling trailers around a yard. Oil was changed every 2,000 miles. I have all of the reciepts from the 70's showing things installed and oil changes. The engine has absolutely no noise, runs well, and dosent start hard.

 

My '50 Chev's 216 is at 117,000kms which is about 75,000miles and still ticking...literally.

 

Some last longer than others no matter how well cared for. It's nothing to see Packards with 85-95,000 miles on em. I'm talkin the big ones from the early to mid 30s. Some Cadillacs too, you'll see high miles on em. Some of that can also be attributed to how fine a posession it was when new. Not many, if any, just "consumed" those cars like we see happen today. Some engines are built with a better grade of internals which adds to their life span. Packard blocks are almost exclusively cast steel vs cast iron. No need for hardened valve seats in the old 30 and 40s engines. Some of the older stuff was re-babbited as time went on as a matter of corse.

 

There are two major factors that led to the older engines not lasting as long.

The first was oil not as good as we have today.

The second was the road draft vent tube. Without PCV systems, fresh air - including grit - was drawn right into the engine where it helped wear things out.

If you do a good rebuild of an early motor, run modern oil and install a PCV system (highly recommended for ANY vintage motor) it will last as long as you want it to.

 

My 56 T Bird 312 has recently turned over 100,000 miles and the heads have never been off. It was owned by Universal Studios and very well maintained.

That being said, as a kid in the 50's I can remember many of my dad's friends talking about having to re-ring and a valve job pretty regularly at around 30,-40,000 miles. I have a friend who is a big wig at State Farm and they did studies on their pool cars back in the day and came to the conclusion that cars should be rotated out of the pool (sold) at 38,000 miles - the repairs were overcoming the value of the car at that point.

 

I think this is one of those ."how long does it take to catch a fish" type questions

or " how long is a piece of string"

because its all depends on care, type, environment, quality, and many un known factors.

 

As was stated before;the way an engine is cared for has a lot to do with it's longevity. A case in point is the engine in my 55 Safari.

I purchased the car in February of 1994 and the speedometer registered about 72,000 miles.The engine had been re-built several years before that and one of the items listed on the paperwork(a literal shoebox full)I got with the car stated that hardened valve seats had been installed in the heads to help ward off premature valve wear due to the use of unleaded gasoline.

Well whomever did the job(I don't have the name of the shop offhand but it was in Hagerstown MD)must have done something right because I have logged nearly 170,000 miles since I bought the car and the heads have yet to be removed.I have replaced a couple of fuel pumps;several pushrods and rocker arms(due to a little overzealous revving of the engine),a timing chain and gear and a vibration damper and the engine continues to run very quietly and still have a bit of pep.The compression was a bit down the last time I checked but all cylinders are within 10 lbs. of one another.There are a few leaks but nothing serious.

The oil was changed about every 3,000 miles faithfully and I am sure this contributed to it's long life.I am working on my third transmission;second rear axle;I don't know how many sets of brakes;and fourth set of tires.

When it becomes necessary I have a re-built engine to install but don't foresee doing that anytime soon.

For what it's worth;most mid-50's era engine were ready for at least a valve job at 25-30,000 miles and a complete re-build before the engine made 50,000.How times have changed!

 

Another factor was air filters. The oil bath air cleaners used well into the 1950s did not take out much of the fine dust that killed engines. Ford engineers figured out that 'modern' paper air filters helped engine life a LOT by stopping dust from getting in and not grinding the rings away.

Also don't forget that a lot of engines from the 30s and 40s did not have oil filters. Once dirt got in the oil, the dirt could act as grinding compoound at least until the next oil change. Modern filters prevent a lot of that.

Piper106

 

56 years and 86000 miles later on a 235. I'll keep an inline in mine!

 

We'll my '29 Tudor still has the original motor and it's never been apart. Still starts and runs. It does only have about 75k on the odometer though. Pretty tough old birds those A model motors.

In my opinion it is all in how it is taken care of. You feed it right, take care of it when it's sick and repair it when it breaks. He'll they'll last forever!

Just in case, I am talking engines not my wife!

 

The engines of the 30's 40's and 50's that have survived have been Fords for a factor of more than ~100 to 1 over gm or any of it's subsides including the highly regarded Cadillac.

Superior engine design along with a better (and more expensive) grade of metallurgy have kept the Flathead V8's ticking along while all other competitors cars have hit the scrap bin at an alarming rate.

The fact that GM outproduced Ford by a factor of almost 2 to 1 from 1928 thru 1954 does little to make up for the severe lack of running and driving 1928 thru 1954 gm based engines or vehicles.

There are many hundreds off thousands of Bangers and Flathead V8's still driving the roads today yet the original engines of the competition can barely be counted at most car shows that feature pre 1954 original vehicles.



The numbers don't lie no matter what brand you tend to love or hate. There is and will always be 100 to 1 ratio of Flathead V8's running the roads as opposed to the more widely produced GM engines and vehicles, cadillac included.

Amongst the longest lasting and best engineered engines it has always been regular maintenance that has kept them on the road although it seems that similar era GM engines would hit the scrap bin irregardless of how many or how frequent the oil was changed (substandard camshaft design (amongst other things) led to early failure which was a big factor for gm from 1935 into the 50's).

Also, Ford adopted more expensive shell style bearings in the mid 30's while GM choose to use Babbitt for years to come (due solely to maximizing profit for it's share holders).

A well designed, engineered and maintained engine will outlast all others irregardless of whether the competition outsold them by a factor of 2.

The fact that there are ~100 ' 40 Fords to 1 '40 chev/gm at every car show is tantamount to the engineering and design irregardless of how much the 'share holders' made today or any day in a companies history.

If GM wasn't so worried about squeezing every penny out of the customer (Planned Obsolescence) then maybe we would see a better ratio of old GM's versus that of the highly maligned and lowly regarded cars built by that of Henry Ford. -And that is irregardless of regular maintenance or lack there of.

From the early days and into the 40's, Ford was researching higher grades of metallurgy while GM was under-designing (Planned Obsolescence) things like camshafts that broke early and often all at the expense of the customer while similarly optimizing profits by selling more camshafts and engine rebuild kits or just more cars in general because the old car had died an early death.

While Ford was spending more on shell bearings (in the 30's), GM was pinching pennies by installing the --> 1830's <-- designed Babbitt bearings. They continued to offer the 100+ year old design of the Babbitt bearing well into the 50's while similarly maximizing profits at the expense of the customer who required more frequent engine rebuilds or just got tired of fixing the old gm or again scrapped it in favor of a new gm car which again, had the desired side effect of maximizing GM's profits.



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History and the numbers don't lie, there are still 100+ Flathead or Banger powered Fords on the road today (and that is a very conservative number) as compared to the seldom seen from and/or similar years of the competition irregardless of the Fact that GM outsold Ford by almost 2 to 1 from 1928 thru 1954.




Individuals simply stating that my ____ has _____ miles on it is really more of a personal/individual nature as opposed to the number of actual brand versus brand cars that have lived a full life or are still running around today in mass.

-and the numbers don't lie



Long live the Flathead Ford (it has already proven itself in that manor)




jmho





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Moefuzz....Amen brother, amen. That is why I have four flattys running and 8+ more stored away.

Flatheads forever!!

 

All things factor in to how long do they last. I read in hemmings where a 68 cuda has gone 450k miles with just a top end rebuild.

I also know that there is a lot to do with oil and filter technologies that plays a key role in things.

Another major contributor to the whole mix is cylinder walls and rings. Ever take apart a newer motor from the last ten years that has over 100k on it only to notice that there is virtually no wear on the cylinders. and take apart an original 30k miler from a 57 chevy and find a nice ridge at the top. there is a large differnce in the finishing of the cylinder walls now via laser technology and ring design as well as teflon buttons on the skirts that leaves no wear. old rings would literally grind away the wall material.

 

Good post. Words of wisdom.

 

It spent 35 years in a field were it was parked in 1963 with 89,000 miles on it's original, untouched engine.




Pulled out of the Saskatchewan country side in 1997 it had it's original all steel body with only a few spots of former lead work (drivers door was scarred)



$4 for generator brushes
$7 for starter brushes and end plate bushing
$20 for fuel pump rebuild kit
$28 for carb rebuild kit
$55 for a 6 volt battery
$5 for gas
$7 for beer
-----

$126 in total to get it running and another $25 for rattle can grey paint job along with some rims robbed from my old Ford truck.....

Today the Flathead V8 is puttering along with about 95,000 miles on it's untouched engine and it runs great (with almost no oil pressure) in spite of sitting for 3 and a half decades on the inhospitable Saskatchewan tundra.



does 'the car hobby' get any better than that (irregardless of make. model or religion)?



.

 

I am going to step out on a ledge here and suppose that MUCH of the recent reduction in cylinder wear is due to FUEL INJECTION, not entirely finishing.

The reason is that there is a lot less gasoline washing the oil off the cylinder bores than with carbs. (malfunctioning chokes, floats, needle valves, drivers leaving the choke pulled out, etc)

I AM partially right about about this, only the degree is in question.

 

I 2nd the great big ugly old oil-bath air filter that was a pain in the rear to service back then BUT worked GREAT!!

That said, the same thing for the old can oil filter that came on the SBC's past the early 265 even if the 265 had a can on top like a Stude oil filter.

A pain to service and I kept an old ice-pick handy to dig out the big o-ring, but they worked great by me!

I change my commuter corn-poppers anywhere from 7,000 to past 12,000 miles between oil changes, BUT I drive almost 98 percent hwy for 60+ miles round trip, 4-days a week so my oil gets good and hot and doesn't sludge.

And I use Walmarts Tech2000 el-cheapo oil and filters for more years than I care to remember fine!!

I do generally top off with good old MMO at my oil changes tho!! 1/2 a small bottle in the new oil and the rest in my gas tank at fill-up.

pdq67

 

`
Very well said moefuzz.
You have a beautiful way with words, and a historical perspective to back it up.
HemiDeuce.

 

My cousin had a 55 Ford with a 272 (I think) V8 that topped 265k. I don't know what became of him or the car - last time I saw him was 1967 and it was still running.