Of the stock heads the most worthy common one is the 69 4V head, truthfully its nothing special, one of the problems with running a set of stock heads is that the rocker shafts are press fit, with not much of a cam mod or a bit of rough driving you can pull out a stud. After that the next weakness is in the push rods, a big cam bends them, next will be guide plates and on and on. Then of course a valve cut job, a 3 a 5 however many nicks and cuts it still costs money, next thing you know you have 2 grand into a set of heads that suck. No matter what you cant get more than $200 for the things. This is a path I have taken, my first 302 was built in the wonder years of 1982, not a lot of good stuff for us then. I would never set my heart on a 302, not when I can build a stroked 351, but if I did again I would save my money for a quality hi flow heads. You may have to save for them but it will be worth it. If you are on a budget I would have the stock set fit for tapped valve studs, put in a very mild cam and a proper sized 4 barrel carb maybe a 500 cfm or less. A decent ignition system and a decent set of headers. I would not myself grind anything on the heads, if you do not have the proper equipment to measure your effects or at least a lot of instinct you will screw up the flow and volume balance. A properly set up 02 will pull like a mule, proper sized carb, cam, and you will not be disappointed. On a budget I would do a bearing and ring freshen up, a new oil pump, a high strength oil pump shaft, a double roller chain, mild cam, studs, and maybe a carb, I would even leave the single points, on a budget they work fairly well.
I don't think he is looking to make a race motor out of this thing. A set of E Street heads will pick up right at 100HP on a mild motor over stock late model 5.0 heads. They are even good for about 45 HP over the GT40P heads! A couple of magazines have come up with the same results. Pretty damn good for under a grand if you ask me.
You can see some monster 331's and 347's on the DSS website. These little piggys have come a long way, you can really make a beast out of one. It does take a lot of research though, like anything else, there are a lot of merchants making claims. Most important thing, right parts matching, seen a lot of guys buy a holley 750 and a big cam in these and bog down.
Really? Cause I paid $600 for mine. He has another '65 set done the same way for $600 sitting on his shelf bagged and oiled. I could have had them done across town for $500, but it would be a week and I wanted to get to work. Both very good machine shops. I had another quote for $800. So when someone asks about stock castings, the first thing you come up with is the aftermarket answer? I only know one guy locally that runs a SBF that actually needed aluminum heads. Everyone else has em cause they look the part. Stock castings can be built to work very well, not as good as aluminum heads, but good enough. Sometimes you can stumble across some decent used aluminum heads that can fit in a budget, but often times budget minded builds go back to stock castings which is what I assumed sherb was going for. It is no secret that the stock heads in a 302 flow poorly, so do some homework and figure out what you want hp wise, where you want it to make the power, and what will get you going. I am not dogging aluminum heads, the numbers don't lie. They put some retarded numbers up on the flow charts, and millions of dyno tests proove the point...thats great. My whole engine budget was $1200...so getting a set of $900 heads was not in the equation. I had to work with what was available and what I could afford.
On a budget I would run the stocks, I just would not spend money making them into a silk purse. Many times the best thing to do is to build a good budget runner, get your car up and running, enjoying it. Meanwhile you can start assembling the dream engine on a stand at the shop, could take years, at least you will be out and about, better to do this than scoot about in a Civic while your ride waits for "The Dream Engine".
Indeed...I will not argue that point. I just don't exactly see where getting a decent set of built stock castings is such a waste. They work great for my purposes.
For a mild 302 - 331 I like the AFR 165s with the 1.94 intakes. They flow great and the smaller ports / valves make for a responsive, somewhat more octane tolerant engine. Mine had the small chambers and I got them off fleabay, for less than I could have put a set of the 351 heads together.
Back before everyone did their racing out of a Summit catalog I remember pinning a set of push in studs. Was a Pontiac but the idea is the same. The "If you can't buy it, it don't exist" mentality is why I run my car in Vintage Four Cylinder class. Most of us have made a lot of our race parts. But at least for the Ford guys it's getting easier to buy your way into a fast car.
As long as you are realistic and know the limits of the component, not a waste at all. Depends where you want it to end up, Just not worth porting, putting in custom valves, guide plates, flow testing, unless you want to run a certain class or have something to prove or research. The basic casting has flow limits that peak at a certain point, throwing money at it will not erase that limit.
What I was saying is if you are going to spend $600, 700 or as you yourself quote above $800.00 I think you are WAY ahead of the game to spend a little over $900.00 and get a far superior head. As for pricing, different parts of the country are quite a bit different in cost as well. And to get back to the original question, the 351W head doesn't really make sense to go with these days. If you could get a set of early 289 castings that were complete and ready to bolt on with all the good parts for $500.00 or less, and the budget didn't allow for more than that, then by all means that is a good way to go. You aren't going to make big power, but it will be a decent little motor. But it seems to me that he was looking for a good bang for the buck and I will still stand by my statement that a set of Aluminum heads offer just that. If your whole budget for the entire motor was $1200 and you spent half of that on just a set of heads, that doesn't leave much for good components for the rest of the motor build. You're going to have at least $300.00 in bearings, Cast or Hyperutectic pistons, oil pump, gaskets etc. Then another $100-150.00 for a decent cam. You've still got to have the block bored, cam bearings installed, Block surfaced, align bore, etc and you'll have at least $3-400.00 at the machine shop, so you're already over budget and you're right you sure can't put a decent set of aluminum heads in that budget. I'm not arguing with you, I was just trying to point out that if you are looking to build some good power out of a small block Henry, then Aluminum heads can be the most cost effective way to get there, not everyone is looking for the cheapest way out.
Well said. Before I found the HAMB, I had a 67 Mustang that I had owned and raced for 15 years. I decided to restore it, ordering most of theparts online. I had so much money into that car, and it didnt run yet. This website taught me the skills I needed to do things myself, and NOT via catalog. I could have saved a TON of money on things like body panel repairs, fabricating crossmembers, steering setup...that Mustang is in a nice home, but my 32 aint going anywhere. FWIW, my 32's 302 will whip the snot out of my 67's. And I built it myself. To the original poster: check out this thread for some performance numbers when dealing with a 302, both stock and aluminum heads: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426112&highlight=budget+302 or http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/index.html I think you have enough ammo to wage war.
There is a new post on www.corral.net Edelbrock Performer heads with pushrods and 1.6 roller rockers $650.Also some AFR's as these guys are going more radical in their builds,click on classifieds and Windsor engines.
Its all what you are planning on doing with it. There are some heads that were on Ford Explorers that are decent for street use and out there to be had cheap. Check you wallet and needs and go from there. Good luck on your build. Jon
That article is one of my favorites. Every Ford builder should read it. When a factory roller cam 302 with good heads and an intake delivers 382 hp at 6,000 rpm and 368 lb-ft of torque at 4,200 rpm, one begins to question some of the old school generalizations.
My friends still don't think the numbers are realistic. I tell them to think about how fast a stock 5.0 Mustang was and think again.
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. I just wanted to jump in and say that I've been messing with 5 liter Mustangs my entire adult life, and there is no better inline valve Sbf head on the planet than the old Trick Flow Hi Port. Also known as the Street Heat, these heads are capable of 1000 horsepower in boosted applications, and have been 200 mph in the quarter. They work equally well in non-boosted street application. They've been in production off and on since 1988 in both iron and aluminum, and Ive seen older, unused iron versions for as little as 450 bucks a set. I would like to add my recommendation for sbftech.com as well. Just go there with an open mind and remember that some of the guys there have been involved with some of the fastest Sbf powered cars on earth.
I have 351 heads on my 302, I spent just as much money on them as a new pair of aluminum heads. Crazy I know but I wanted the look of older heads. I put bigger valves and cleaned them up for better flow. It's not a roller motor at all and has a street cam and a few other goodies. My coupe has 300 hp at the rear wheels, in a car the weighs under 2000lbs that's enough. If you don't care about the look, then go with aluminum. Lots more power. I love the look of the old 302.
Tell me about it. The 5.0 can easily make over 300 hp just lightly ported stock iron heads and a carb. 325 is not uncommon.
Early 289 heads with a cnc port job make for a small chamber sleeper. Cam, compression, rpm range, converter/clutch, vehicle weight all help to pick an intake. Unlimited intakes out there. If you want 289 cylinder head cores, lets me know what month/year; I have most. Just pay shipping. Ho Ho Ho!
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