Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

Mac,

Great photo indeed! 335 [?] cubic inch Chevys VS 220 Offy. I always wonder how George Bignotti kept it together - its difficult to battle cubic inches. Thanks for the information.

Offy 220

 

The first Hillegass midgets came out of New York before he moved to Allentown. I had one of his midgets and the workmanship was top of the line

 

The USAC Chevys were around 305 c.i.(327 block with a 283 crank). The Offys were 220 c.i. until about 1962. The, mid 60s, Jud Phillips "Wynn's OFFY" and the "A.J. Watson OFFY" were 255 c.i. Cubic inches, higher revs and cheaper price killed the OFFY.
I was working for Henry Meyer on the #93 Iddings car during those years. He switched from the 220 to the 305 following the 1961 season.

Oddly, the early 60s pushrod, stock block V8s at INDY, such as the Mickey Thompson and Lotus cars, had to run at 255 c.i........ same as the Offys.

 

Getting back to your original question, yes, many of the major builders offered parts, pieces, rollers etc. Even back in the 30s you could buy individual parts. (hmmmm these prices aren't too shabbby, wonder if they take MasterCard? ) :

 

I was just gonna restore the midget as I found it but finding out who may have made it is interesting? the guy I got it from said it was a home built but the frame & cowl supports are to perfect, like they were stamped or made around a die, to be hammered out in a garage?
Paul

 

do you have any pic's of the early frames, I forgot about hillegass?

 

Rootie, re your post #12651, what would you estimate cost would be today for
complete car & with parts of same type materials used then???
mlight9

 

To duplicate a 30s elto? Hard to say but I would guess at least 10x and probably closer to 20x what it was then.

 

Hillegass used uprights from trailers for midget frame rails. I have his patterns for the kickups and front corners. Hillegass frame is easy to spot, his front spring perch only had three bolt holes in the top and the bottom flange bolted to the front of the frame under the spring. I have a couple complete hilly rail frame midgets and they are all the same. He did noy use hair pin radius rods they were made from T radius rods. He didnot use hair pins till he started making tube frame cars. Front spring perches were madw from connecting rods and bolted to the axle.
I lucked out when I bought the contents of his shop that Drumheller had when he died. He even had aluminum dorr panels off franklin cars stashed away. Hiram told me that new aluminum was hard to get before ww2. I treasure this stuff. lots of it ia at EMMR but the rest will go there after my demise.

 

Stan...are we talking about steel channels from truck semi trailers here?

Also, I've seen in your posts, Hillegas spelled with one "s" and two. Which is correct please?

 

two ss`s but my typing sucks. You are right about the uprights from a semi. I got a few of them with his stuff.
When I was a young kid Hirem left me hang around his shop. I fell in love with those open wheel cars. I copied his louver punch and was able to support my race car passion.

 

Rootie, as always, great stuff. I would love to get a copy of the pieces you have posted on the midget price list and the Elto information. I have two old basket case rail frame midgets. I also was able to get two basket case Elto/Evinrude 4cyls. several years ago.
As you may know, the right angle gearboxes are the tough item to duplicate or find for these installations. Any of the printed stuff you have would help as a reference. Hope you could send me a PM with the Elto stuff attached or let me know how I could access. Thanks

 

I'd be happy to assist in "reverse engineering" that right angle gearbox. No charge to convert your sketches into useable drawings. Getting gears made, especially custom made bevel gears, is difficult but knowing how frugal the old timers were it is likely they are from some then common piece of car/truck/farm machinery. If not I know people with the right machinery who might help.

Earlier this year I presented a paper on the reverse engineering of some oil pump gears for a Formula 1 car. It isavailable for free download at my web site: www.beytagear.com

Chuck Schultz
Winfield, Illinois

 

Rootie,
I have never heard of the RCO double overhead cam engine before. What a great add. That should have been a great motor. Ball bearings on the crank? Seperate clys? Must have a head on it for the low compresion and not to good of cams or would have more HP.
Also I was running at South Bend 1/4 high bank in 66, someone had an Elto powered car that they said used to belong to Tony Bent.. I forgot who drove it but they let whoever the BRAVE man was get on it. He was less than a secound off of quick time. Now we were running 5 1/2 wdie tires [5 on the left] but he was running the tires that came on that car- 3, 4 inches at the most. Had balls bigger than mine. The car was purple I think. Anybody remember anything about this or the car? The CASTOR OIL sure smelled goood!
Also I think Kurtis did build a rail frame midget, but my books are in Ky. and I am in Florida. Ed Hitze probably would have an idea on this.
Jim

 

I think I'm remembering the Oswald Elto as being purple and being acquired by Bob Willson of Brookfield WI in his later years and sold by him before he passed, 5 or 6 years ago.

 

That is all I have. Quite some time back I was on a vintage race boat site, and they had scanned all the pages of a bunch of 1930s race boat magazines. While perusing through the pages I found those ads and saved them. If you right click and save those 2 pages I posted you will have exactly what I have.

 

I located a Midget for sale. Went to look at it and was surprised to see it was an aluminum monocoque type construction. I've never seen anything like this.

Car is in great condition with a fresh Chevy II with a bunch of good stuff inside. Airheart brakes, torsion front and rear, Halibrand Q/C.

I heard of Harry Turner building monocoque midgets, but have been unable to locate any pictures. I don't know if this is one of them

Take a look at these pics and please help me I.D. what I'm looking at. I have no idea what this car is worth. Anybody willing to help me out?

I'm also gonna' post this over on the midget thread.

Thanks.

 

PM Roy Caruthers (racer5c) as I recall he is quite familier with them.

 

O.K. now you guys got my "backyard" engineering mind working. Couldn't you modify a outboard lower unit to use? Fab up a clutch "can" and adapt a m/c or tilton type clutch where the prop would normally go. It would take a lot of noodling and machine work, but might be doable. Just a thought.

 

I had a Turner, that isn't like any Turner I've seen, Lance Turner is over on the midget thread I think. what part of the country is that car in?

 

Down here in Carolinas.

 

I will PM you with Lance's contact information. He is a great guy and still has a couple of his Dad's cars. He and Gregg Kishline just finished my Dreyerette. Eric

 

I replied on the Midget thread.
This may be the independent front suspension tub Gregg Kishline has been trying to locate for some time. had a side cut out to install a VW and a brace put in on one side.

I sent Gregg the link to your photos & he should respond in the next few days.

Chuck Schultz
Winfield, Illinois
Official PR hack for the #50 Fredrickson roadster restoration team

 

Happy New Year eveyone!
from Lee Greenawalt​

​

 

From Gregg Kishline:

Lance and I scoped the HAMB photos, while comparing notes over the phone. Ain't technology wonderful?

There are too many discrepancies. Brackets and structures come and go over time, but some of the original basics have to match up. Details, details.

Our joint decision on this midget is that 1) it's not the independent tub that went to California in the 70's, and 2) Harry didn't build it. The known non-Turner monocoques include one built by Don Vogler (accounted for, owned by Mike Halling) and 2 or 3 built by Tom Mislich (one in southern IL). This car on the HAMB site MAY be one of the Mislich tub copies, but it doesn't look like Tom's work to me. The next and most likely possibility is that it's a tub as built someone who saw one of Harry's and decided to do their own version.

Thanks for asking.
GK

 

While looking for some info on another site I found this picture that was taken at Jesse James bike shop. This was the only picture posted.Don't know if it was Jesse's or if he was doing some fab work on it for a customer.....Rich

 

Oswald Elto car #25 drivers: Len Duncan and sometimes Tony B
Chuck Fausel sold it and the rest of his collection in June to Tom Malloy.
Link to some photos I took of Moving Day
http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums... Fausel Farms to Malloy Motorsport/?start=all

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Take a look at these pics and please help me I.D. what I'm looking at. I have no idea what this car is worth. Anybody willing to help me out?

I could be wrong, but I think this is a 3/4 midget and not a full-sized midget, judging by the size of the radius rods, steering wheel shaft, exhaust tube diameter, etc. Plus- from what I can see of the engine, it doesn't appear to be as big as a midget engine. If I'm wrong give me a few days to think of a decent excuse!

 

I have all the true experts involved in this .

I have a KK Offy, so I guess I could pull some measurements off that for comparison.

What is the minimum WB measurement for a typical midget?

AND.........what is the maximum WB for a 3/4 midget?

The engine is a Chevy II, with some kind of a Pontiac facade logo on the valve cover. Makes it look like something it isn't.

I've seen 3/4 midgets, and size wise this just appears to be larger than that, but you folks are the experts.

I don't know if I should get this. Maybe I'd be better off jumping off a bridge ?

Maybe someone else here might want it. I won't get in the way. I'll help ya' with a deal. But I need to make an offer and I'm scratching my head .

ALSO, thanks for all the input .

 

By no means a expert , but generally speaking, a TQ-62-66" wb--- Midget-72-76". A Chevy 2 would be waaay to big for a TQ, they ran approx. 750-1000 cc engines like croselys and bike motors and such.