Drum brake diagnosis...need direction and advice

More shots of rough spots...

 

Barking up a completely different tree here...Do the bearings look a little "dry" to anyone else?

Hoovs, do the bearings have a thin layer of grease on them and is there grease packed in around them? Can't tell real well in the pic, and it might not be the problem but I think they could stand to be re-packed.

Good for you for tackling your own car issues. It can seem daunting at first but take your time, ask questions and it will feel great everytime you accomplish something new!

Scott

 

Sorry...lost the internet connection in the garage for a minute.

Thanks Scott. The bearings seem to be good, but I will repack before re***embly (as long as I'm this far, might as well go all the way, right?)

With the drum off, try rotating the brake shoe ***embly like the pendulam of a grandfather clock. It should pivot smoothly as there should be grease where the shoes pivot against the backing plate. The shoes look pretty fresh. If the contact points were not lubed the brake shoe may not be retracting away from the drum when you release the brake.
That noise SHOULD go away/change when braking, but, if they're way out of adjustment, that may not be the case.

Not sure on this one...one more time, like I'm a five year old please LOL.<!-- / message -->

 

Something is out of round, either the drum (effect not cause), the axle (bent or loose bearing), or the brake ***y. (see my above post on backing plate lube and adjustment).

#3 is BY FAR the most common.

How long have those brake shoes been on the car? What's the weather like where you live? Rain and snow will wash lube off backing plates pretty quickly.

 

Judging by the pics of drums and shoes, I suspect your drums are slighly out of round and causing the whooshing sound you are hearing. Can you have the drums turned and replace the shoes?

Brakes are one of my favorite things to work on, simple and complex at the same time.

 

Just curious, how does the stationary brake ***embly make the drum out of round?

The shoes dont look like they have a ton of miles on them. The drum looks really bad.

That's not to say there aren't any problems with the brakes...there probably are, such as the loose anchor bolt, and the way that shoe is wearing one one edge. And the bearing looked a bit dry to me, too.

 

Sure. When you step on the brake pedal, the two pistons in the wheel cylinder (the thing on top, between the brake shoes with the rubber hose connected to it), expand outwards, forcing the brake shoes against the drum like two bananas inside a circle). When you release the brake pedal, those pistons are released. The spinning of the brake drum pushes the bananas away from the circle (drum) so it doesn't rub against the drum. The "bananas" mount against a metal plate (backing plate) and are held down by springs. On each banana, there are 3 or so contact points between the backing plate and the shoe. These points must be lubricated (are you a married man?) so that the bananas slide back away from the spnning drum when your foot is off the brake.
If they DON'T retract, a part of them will rest against the spinning drum and cause a "woosh woosh woosh" noise as the drum spins against it. The "rough part" of the right, upper shoe and the uneven wear of the drum strongly indicate this is happening.
The shoes look pretty new. I've seen THOUSANDS of brake jobs where the shoes are not lubed correctly. I know SoCal has been getting torrential rains, which wash lube off backing plates like crazy.

Just a hunch.

 

Okay...so:

1. turn drums
2. replace shoes
3. adjust accordingly
4. adjust anchor pin
5. repack bearings

Yes? No? More?

 

Espo, that's what I needed!

 

Might need to replace the drums, depending on how worn they are. Just be prepared for that bad news call when you take them in to get them turned.

 

If this is directed at me, the brake ***embly is not stationary (if it's working). If it's out of round or adjustment, it causes friction, which causes heat which causes metal distortion.
I know you know this, though, as well as a great deal about cars.

??????

 

****!!!!!!

One too many test pumps from the wife...now what?!!!!!

 

Sounds good, if a bit excessive. Being a tight-***, I would buy a can of High-Temp grease and an acid brush or a(small paintbrush like what comes in your kid's watercolor set). With a screwdriver, I would GENTLY pry the shoes away from the backing plate and look at the area where they meet with a flashlight. You'll see the rub marks. Dab some grease there.
Adjust brakes.

Test drive.

Have a beer.

Brag to wife.

 

I too would say the drum because it doesn"t take much to cause the sound and look at the drum,its as clean and shiny as a disc brake rotor and the brakes shoes don"t show any wear.Also if the nut was that easy to get off the drums shiny as the outer lip--towards backing plate is could be out of round just enough to rub and get the noise.I do agree on the grease deal,grease everywhere but in the rollers.One suggestion,since you want to work on your own stuff,Great! but make it a habit at every oil change check the ****** and rearend lube,an overlooked and important part of the whole drivetrain.Good luck!

 

No sweat.

The pistons came out farther than they supposed to because there was no drum to stop the shoes.

Try pushing them back in with even, firm pressure and slip the rubber dust boots into place.

 

Done...whew!

 

I have to question again, the fact that your large, retaining nut was so loose. It's supposed to be torqued between 205 and 275 ft. lbs. Also have to look at the rust inside the taper of the hub where it slides on axle. This thing couldn't have been as tight as it should be. It needs to be TIGHT and SEATED so that it does not wobble, even minutely, on the axle taper as the drum rotates. Be aware...ANY wobbling /movement / looseness of the hub on the axle can fatigue an old Ford axle end to the point that it can fracture / separate from back and forth work-hardening. Result...wheel AND drum / hub DEPART the vehicle...not pretty at best. Also have to question why the studs are welded-into the hub. You ought to look / check this axle end very carefully and with su****ion. DD

 

Ok! You'll probably have a tough time putting the drum back on now, as the shoes were pushed out really far. You may have to squeeze the front and rear shoes together like Hulk Hogan to get the pistons compressed enough.

 

Okay...clarification....

1. Brake pad
2. Backing plate
3. attachment point
4. attachment point

Yes?

 

No.

I haven't the computer skills you have, so bear with me.

1. That is part of the brake shoe, the asbestos friction material (the part which wears out) ("pads" are for disc brake vernacular "shoes" are for drum brake vernacular).

2. This is the backing of the brake shoe (in your enummeration). The backing plate is the vertical "plate-like", stamped steel piece to which all the brake junk is mounted.

The "attachment points" are the places where the backing plate meet the backing of the brake shoe.

 

Pad is brake shoe lining material. Backing plate is big round thing that brake shoes attach to and pivot-on at the bottom. Attachment point(s) are behind brake shoes at bottom where the two big bolts attach and pivot the two brake shoes at the bottom of the backing plate. DD

 

have to question again, the fact that your large, retaining nut was so loose. It's supposed to be torqued between 205 and 275 ft. lbs.

I had to wrench it off.

Also have to question why the studs are welded-into the hub.

Not sure...first time I have had it off since purchase...studs normally attached how?


It needs to be TIGHT and SEATED so that it does not wobble, even minutely, on the axle taper as the drum rotates.

I didn't notice any wobble when i removed it.

 

One final time a ? Did you need a puller to get the drun off the axle???? If you did not That is The First Problem !! The drum moving around on the axle can make intermitant noises. The wear pattern the shoes tell me the drum may be out of round,bell mouthed etc.
In your pictures 1=lining 2=brake shoe 3= parking brake lever. 4 can't really tell.
When adjusting the 39-41 style brakes [what you have] there is a VERY specifiac way of doing it. The correct way has been posted here several times ,a search should find the info.

 

I didn't notice any wobble when i removed it.[/QUOTE]


That speaks volumes. Coopman may be right, but first things first. Let's get your brakes on and adjusted and we can solve or eliminate that most common culprit.

 

Studs are pressed in . Prevented from rotating either by splines on the shank or a flat on the head that contacts a step on the hub. Welded in is not a real big deal other than removing the weld should you ever need to replace a stud.

 

"I didn't notice any wobble when i removed it."

It doesn't take any NOTICEABLE wobble. Minute and un-noticeable will do it.

"I had to wrench it off."

Was it 200 ft. lbs. tight, or more? It takes lots of wrench to loosen one that's been properly tightened. Also, when one HAS been properly tightened, it almost always requires a beefy and correct puller to get one off. DD

 

Okay, so the "bananas" include the asbestos friction plates as well as the "copper/rust" plates they are attached to. The connection points are 1,2,3 and 4 in the picture and the backing place is large plate attached to the axle?

 

Stay focused, Hoovs.

The noise just started. Those welds are half a century old . Nobody's been loosening your axle in the night.

 

Yes on everything except the "attachment points". Let's call what we're after "lube points". These are on the back of the brake shoe (you can't see them) where they make contact (rub) on the backing plate.

 

I will definitely search for this...thanks!