I am looking for some HAMB expert advice on my recently acquired 50 Chevy ride. This is my first "classic" custom car and this car was made decades before I was born, so I need some direction on how to get the car to be what I want it to be. I want it to be a daily driver able to handle freeway trips. I don't need to win drag races with it, just cruise with a smile without having to plan to take side streets the whole way. I have spent many hours on the forums reading about how to build up, swap, channel, bag, clip these cars, but I really just need some advice from those that have lived it. I have decoded the engine in my car and it is a 1952 216 motor. Engine has been "hopped" up with a duel carb "offy" intake and duel exhaust. The rest is pretty much stock from 1950: 3-speed, and older style pre-bendix drums all around. The engine starts right up and runs well, sounds awesome, rides nice, but I have the following concerns I need some knowledgeable input on: 1. Brakes - Before you go faster, you need to stop better. So first step, should I get rid of 50 drums up front, and do a spindle/disk upgrade along with a new master? Suspension/steering/ride is OK, so I think I would like to keep that stock. Are the $200-$400 "complete" front disk kits worth it or should I just rebuild the stock drums, master, hoses? 1a. If I change fronts to disk, what is the best affordable master swap/upgrade for disk/drum? 2. When I drive it now, I fear that I am beating it to death going over 40mph. If I want it to get to be a freeway car I know that means rear end/trans swap. Some say just put a T5 in and a rear out of a 70's Camaro or S10. Would the 216 be able to push the car to 60-70 mph with a T5 and have a long life? I have read RPM's kill 216's, so I am worried about pushing it to much. 3. Although I have 3 sick shift cars, I kind of just want an automatic cruiser. What about a TH350 or 700R4 behind a 216? I know there are adapters, but will this engine even handle the power loss of an automatic and be drivable up to 65 mph? 4. Does #3 above or just pushing the car to 60 mph mean engine swap to a newer 250 six or a 350 v8? I really like the 6, and if I can get to freeway speeds and not kill it, I want to stay that route. 5. Needs to be done cheep and on a budget, and I probably need to pay someone to do it, I can turn wrenches for simple stuff, but I don't weld or have engine replacement experience. Is it even possible to do this on a budget or should I just look for another car that has it done? If anyone can chime in with their own experience, that would be great. Like I said, I have read hundreds of posts here and am even more confused as to the way to go. I know some of you have gone this road before. How do I get there from here? If you can be hired to do some of the work and are in the Seattle area PM me! Thanks HAMBers! Here is what my engine bay looks like right now - this is kind of why I want to keep with the 6!
The car should cruise 60 with no problem, as it is. One thing to remember with the 216 is always warm them up good. If you rev them when they are cold, it will splash all the oil out of the rod dipper trays and more doesn't run in right away. The old machinist who told me that had a 51 pickup with over 200,000 miles on the original 216 and he drove the crap out of it. The brakes? Depends on where you live. Around here in rural small town, I would be fine with them. If I still lived in east Texas, I would definitely put better brakes on.
Not qualified to answer for anyone but myself, but will be sitting in the back of the class taking notes. I'm usually late to class . . . More pics of the car?
If you want to keep your old engine you have to bring down the highway rpms. Even at that, sooner or later, you WILL have a new inspection hole in the side of the block. The quickest, cheapest, easiest way to reduce the engine speed is to put in the T5 and open drive rear. You will have to change the bell housing. As for brakes, put the system in top shape and get your shoes relined with ceramic or other high performance modern lining. The biggest problem I ever had with the old style brakes was fade from heat. A 235, 261 or any of the GMC 228 - 302 engines are an easy swap and you get full pressure oiling. Getting an automatic in there is not cheap or easy. For now anyway, stick with the standard. 5. Needs to be done cheep and on a budget, ------- This does not fit too well with all your other goals. I hope you can pull it off, good luck, keep us posted.
Find a '53-'54 parts car with Powerglide, and swap the 3.55 rear end and front Bendix brakes into the '50. The RPM at 60 will be about like 50 is now. The dipper engine requires occasional TLC. If there's any slight rattle on cold starts, pull the pan and adjust the rod clearance. Do that every 25,000 miles and it will run for many years, as long as you don't do something stupid. I have a '52 with 85 thou on it and the 235 still runs great. Still has the 4.11 gears, but I have found a set of 3.55's, next spring project!
You have a 52 with a 235? I thought they came out in 53 models. Is it a dipper? I haven't done a car but I swapped the 216 in a 49 pickup for a 270 Jimmy and it wasn't just an easy swap. The 270 was quite a bit longer and we had to move the core support forward, requiring surgery IIRC. I had a friend in Tejas a couple years ago who had a 51 Fleetline with a 270, triple carbs, Judson magneto, headers. He was always afraid to stomp on the loud pedal for fear of grenading something in the original drivetrain.
If you go the th350 route you mentioned you wont gain anything because thats not an over drive trans, the 700r4 is though and they are pretty cheap and easy I think. You never mentioned what the rear axle ratio was might be able to gain quite a lot with a gear swap. neat looking six.
Thanks guys! willowbilly3 - I live where there are lots of hills, mountains and curves. I may just keep it all stock, but rebuilt it with new stuff like OldBuzzard says. OldBuzzard - I may start to hunt down the parts for the T5 swap. Although I like my 6, I did see a 71 nova a while back with a 6 and auto for pretty cheap. I may see if I can locate it, it may have all the parts needed for a full swap + some. R Pope - Maybe I am just worried about thrashing my new old car, or maybe I am just use to a 350 with overdrive loafing along at 1800 rpm @ 60mph. I don't hear any rattles in the motor when cold. willowbilly3 - it is a 1950 Chevy, motor decodes to a 1952 216ci. aacfmach - I think the rear is a 4:11 or 4:44. From what I have read, gear sets are hard to find, easier just to swap the while rear, which means working forward through the drive train and brakes with new parts also. Thus I guess that's why everyone is saying T5, 10bolt rear combo. I just have to convince myself that that is not over my head to do. BrerHair - I'll see if I can attach some more pics here...
I just got done removing the rusted fender trip fasteners, so I am in the process of getting that all cleaned up and smoothed out.
I swapped in a t5 with hand tools in my driveway. Swap meet parts will get it done for $4-500. My 235 had plenty of power to get over 90 with a single carb and stock exhaust. I used the ECI disc brake kit, again done in my driveway. But you also need a new master cylinder, and it just keeps going from there. If you find a 53 or 54 powerglide parts car, then the rear and front brakes will be a "good enough" improvement for your budget. Plus, the newer uprights will lower the car some.
Willowbilly3- the 235 was available at least as far back as '51. I believe they debuted with the powerglide, though. The dippers, with the proper care, can live though quite a bit. a rearend change is usually the first step. RPope has the easiest answer of finding a rear from a Powerglide car. That's the least amount of money spent and wrenching, but you have to FIND one. On my '51, I'm going to upgrade the whole driveline. A little more work, but I'm really hooked on the upgraded oiling, added strength in the trans/rear, and not having poured babbitt bearings. Fortunately, like you, my 216 still runs good, and I was able to go with it while I wait to find the parts I want at a good price. Though, I picked up a running 235/3 speed complete from a '55 Chevy last week for 150 bucks.
Nice score, fbama. FYI, maybe everyone knows this, but these stovebolt motors did not have a pressurized oil delivery system. Splash oil with the dipper scoops on the connecting rods. We were determined to get above 200 hp on our '51 (I mean, what is at the heart of hotrod if it's not hp?) and were perfectly willing to hop up the 216. Found Tom Langdon, Langdons Stovebolt Co. who specializes in hop-up parts for inline 6's: http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/ Says you'll burn the motor up if you try to shoot for north of 110 hp due to the engine's inablility to deliver oil properly. What do I know? Our answer was sbc. You know, I get a real kick out of the aversion to sbc here on the HAMB. I personally could give a rat's ass if anyone has a problem with it. I grew up in the '50s and '60s and the first priority in the hotrod culture has always been more horsepower! I mean, the splash system certainly explains why you see a sbc under the hood of every other 49-54 chevy. What were there, something like 90 million sbc's? Sorry, I digress, I know your questions are not all about more hp, but there it is, I said it, I think it's pertinent info. A rank amateur here, make no mistake, ready for more education. Just FYI.
BrerHair - thanks for the info. While I am not looking to get high HP or running 13's in my 50 chevy, I would like it to comfortably go all day long at 60-65. If I can get there with the 6 I may continue down that route. But if that is a short lived reality, it may be a newer and bigger 6 or a SBC to get the comfort cruiseability goal. Trouble is you ask ten people here and five will tell you go the 6 to be cool (I like that) and the other five will say it can't be done without a SBC (and I love the SBC).
One thing to consider is that a newer 6 cyl conversion is about the same amount of work as a V8 conversion. You need to fab motor/tranny mounts, open drive rear end and drive shaft, probably relocate radiator and worry about steering/exhaust linkage. Unless you are a inline fan, a SBC tends to make more sense with that much swapping. And this is coming from an inline running Ford guy. Conor
Sounds like you should take your time and change stuff up as money and experience build. Nearly all my daily drivers have drum brakes they work fine, but you have to know how to stop with them. Out of habit I pump abs and push in the clutch on autos. You can refresh what you have for now and put on the big spender stuff later. Cheapest route we found for disk on the 49 was the basic bracket kit for disk and calipers and rotors from the local parts store. The 216 works will go 75 and would keep working if you were to rebuild it but in the end you will want oil pressure. We went with the 235 because it looks like a 216 and has full pressure. Take your time and you will find a good deal on an engine The 49 was a ton truck with a 216 so it had an open drive shaft. at that time all the tranys had 1 to 1 final gear in them 3 or 4 speed and the s10 rear end made the truck run on the street at highway speed for over a year in stock form. For you www.patricksantiquecars.com/ sells new ring and pinions for the rear end. you all ready have. I would consider that the basic get the project on the road and build off that as you enjoy it. In the end it is cheaper to park the car for a few years and build from start to finish never driving it, but starting slow and building will teach you a lot more
Bolt in mounts are available for this car for Chevy 230-250, 292, and side-mount V8s. Trans mount kits are available too. Very little fab needed.
Ah- that's not trouble. That's just showing you that there is more than one right answer. You get to decide which one is most right for you. SBC's are way overdone, but there's a good reason for it- they're plentiful, reliable, relatively cheap, and easy to build- hot rodder gold. And I don't care now many you see- with 3 deuces and finned aluminum valve covers, they look great (and traditional) Inlines are traditional, too- not as plentiful, but usually cheaper. About as easy to build. You have to dig a bit more for parts, but you've already got a kickass intake/carb setup. Which one is right for you? Well, your desires, skill level, budget, and tools will determine that one. But if what you really want is slightly out of reach, you can build slowly, and acquire tools and skils along the way of getting it there.
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