Thanks Bruce. When you say pan rails, are you talking about the surface where the oil pan bolts to the block? Are there number stamped on too?
No numbers...engines built up through about 1940 have two circa 1" freeze plugs on that surface. Later prewar engines don't, but usually have a raised surface for the manifold mount I do not see on yours. This surface looks exactly like the gasket is stuck to the block...but is part of the casting. The numbers on your upper surface are likely some rebuilder's marking.
Alright, I'll take the oil pan off today then, so we can see what it looks like inside... Thanks for your time, Bruce!
Took the pan off, and here is what it looked like: Some of the inside cylinders look decent, but others just rusted real bad... Also put some Acetone and ATF into the one cylinder bank: Hope that'll help getting the pistons loose! So should I take the crank out next or try to get all the cylinders loose first and take the whole crank, connecting rod, piston ***embly out?
glad you decided to grab this. I don't understand why someone would s**** it. For what, some short time money vs. long time history. It doesn't make sense to me. I applaud your efforts. Good luck.
Take as many lose piston/rods out now as you can. Then take the cam gear off. Then, you may be able to rock the frozen pistons loose a bit. Probably not, but maybe. Chances are you will end up needing to pound some frozen pistons up and out to get the crank free. Try to use a chunk of wood to protect the rod's bearing surface to prevent marring while hammering them out.
take the crank out, then pound em down with a block of wood. but dont go down all the way, because they wont all come out the bottom. just crack em loose then wire brush the crud, and then pound em back out through the top. honing the ridge off the top if its got a bad ridge would be a good idea too.
Cool, I am planning on building up a Flathead for my latest and 1st model A project. Currently reading the Ron Biship book on Flatheads. Red Ram Hemi
'39-40 221 for sure...the bulges on pan rail are the locations of the plugs. Good Lord! The guy used EVERYTHING from the dead '33-4 motor...even the oil pump! The innards are a LOT better looking than I would have expected from a totally exposed engine!
If you remove all the rod caps and main caps, keeping them in order and proper orientation (you can keep them on a long board, set on 2 nails per cap) you can work the crank out with a little screaming and cursing and get a bit more room for the examination and dis***embly.
Thanks guys, I'll go ahead a try to get the crank out over the weekend. You're right Bruce, I expected the pan to be full of sludge and dirt. Seems like the valve valley is the worst looking now... Is the oil pump worth keeping?
You don't want pump or pan or dipstick...restorer might once fully ID'd. Everything external seems 1934. Pan doesn't even properly fit a later engine!
Cracks can obviously hide anywhere under the filth and rust, and freeze cracks could be anywhere from angles of rest and degree of water intrusion. Starting points: Buzz rust off of area between bore and valves and along pan rails, blast with spray carb cleaner, examine intensely with light at different angles, s****er to help separate crud lines from actual cracks.
Thanks for you coments! I got the main bearing nuts off, but I'm not sure how to get the caps off. Don't want to damage them! Any thoughts?
Tap the sides of the caps with a hammer. Keep working side to side and keep wiggling them. Eventually they will come off.
Boy, this is like deja vu. Mine wasn't quite that bad. Some schmuck left it outside with the carb off. 2 rusted cylinders and 8 stuck intake valves. Going to the machine shop this week. Good luck to you. I left a lot of flesh behind getting it apart. The neighbors swear they can still hear the echo of obscenities late at night. All part of the fun!
you could use a stud puller to take out the studs but i wouldn't take them out if they were serviceable, too much drama for me in that. the block looks pretty good from the pics, you may have a good buildable one here. pull the crank and it will make driving the pistons out a lot easier if that is necessary which is likely. you will need some tools for the valves and removing the cam. good luck, you might have a neat little 221 motor to build.
Thanks guys, I was able to get the main caps off! But it seems like one thing leads to another. There are 2 connecting rod nuts that I can't get to. Got all the other nuts and connecting rod caps off. but not sure what to do about those two: Got one piston moving a bit when I was trying to wiggle the crank, but I can't move it enough to get to them nuts. All the other pistons are still ****. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Martin
long socket, short socket with a swivel or extension, s wrench, bend wrench, short wrench, swivel socket on an extension...... the list goes on. these plenty of room there to get to them! i expect this crank to be out in 5 minutes. 3. 2. 1. GO! haha it might make it easy to take out the other pistons that move freely(tap on the rod bolts with a br*** or rubber mallet) if you have to use steel put a nut on the bolt end first)
Sounds like you should come over, Johnny The one in the first picture I can't get anything on, it's like 3/4 inch from the block. The second one I can get a swivel on, but I'm not able to get it loose. Maybe it's just me...
if i could come over i would with a 6 pack and wed have that thing apart in no time. ok if you can get one of those off youll be able to lift the crank up that will straighten the other rod out and youll be able to get to it easier. maybe put a bigger bar on the swivel?
You're the man, Johnny! The six pack is on me, I got her out! Had to use my beam style torque wrench (don't have one of them fancy ones) but now she's out! Woohooo!
nice!!! i love progress my flatty is at the shop getting hot tanked and repaired... lets see how many pistons come out easy! if thats a 221 and you ruin a few pistons that are really stuck i have a few that ill give you.
Thanks, man! I'll have to find out if the block is usable first. But if it is, I'll jump on that offer But for now let's just say all the pistons will come out easy! Yeah, right...
And no, not a '38! All or almost all '38 24 stud engines were short crank, using the Model 68 crank also used in the later 21 suds, and so had smaller mains! This is a long crank engine, introduced at least close to the 1939 Model year. Bigger mains kept '39-53, the long snoot was presumably to support the new crank mounted fans used on most '39's.
I have made it a point, to NEVER question Bruce Lancaster,... when it comes to early Ford V-8's,...... PERIOD !
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