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53 Studebaker Coupe Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by triffid_98, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. triffid_98
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 12

    triffid_98
    Member
    from San Jose

    Hey guys,

    I recently picked up a 53' Studebaker coupe for a song (+ about $1k in shipping to CA). I've always loved the looks of these things and this one was too good to pass up.

    But since it's a barn find I'm assuming something fairly bad happened to the drive-train (this is how things end up in the barn after all).

    I know a lot of people have done V8 conversions on these but I haven't found any forums that talk much about it, just the restoration shops selling them.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm not trying to build a drag car but if I need to spend money on engine/tranny work anyway I may as well swap in something a little more fun than that 85hp flat-head 6.

    Thanks,
    David

    53' Studebaker Champion
    65' Dodge D300
    93' Toyota Supra TT

    [​IMG]
     
  2. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,044

    chaddilac
    Member

    Absolutely the best looking car in 53... so totally beyond what everyone else was doing!

    I have not help for you... just wanted to see your car! :)
     
  3. LongnLow
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 148

    LongnLow
    Member

  4. OldsRanch
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 185

    OldsRanch
    Member

    Lots of potential there, get started. I wouldnt sub and tub it unless youre hell bent on doing it. Mine has a 9" ford on the stock rear springs, and a disc brake conversion on the stock front spindles. I would, however, recommend chucking the stock steering box and putting in a rear-steer Omni rack. That stock steering setup, while quite functional, takes up a bunch of room. I might still convert mine to the rack setup, but right now I am having too much fun driving it.
     
  5. Dick Dake
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 788

    Dick Dake
    Member

    Look at Studebaker Drivers Club and the Racing Studebakers website. An R3 clone motor with a 700r4 would be better than the 350/350 combo.
     
  6. 26 roadster
    Joined: Apr 21, 2008
    Posts: 2,020

    26 roadster
    Member

    My favorite too!
    Mustang II to get it in the weeds
    9" ford rear
    500 cid Cadillac
    th400 (short tailshaft)
    Moon discs
    I have all this stuff just in case I find one!!!
     
  7. rixrex
    Joined: Jun 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,433

    rixrex
    Member

    try and find a 259/289 Studebaker engine they are very strong..most will be two-barrels and convert to the Edelbrock four easily..the Stude slushbox automatic needs to be converted to the 200/700r trans..there is a cheap, easy conversion to later model Studebaker front disc brakes as well. Next to the Studebaker, everything else in the early 50s looks like a loaf of bread..
     
  8. Welcome and nice find. These Studebakers have always had special place in my heart. They look like they are going 200 while sitting still and look perfect on the salt flats and dry lakes.

    As for the drive train, I would echo rixrex on putting a Studebaker V8 in there with a modern transmission. It may be a few more bucks than a SBC but it will give it a bit more appeal and a lot more fun. Work is fun right?

    Good luck!
     
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Be aware that the six cylinder Studes used a thinner frame than the V8s. I decided to reinforce mine here and there when going to a SBC. And it is a California dessert car. No rust.
     
  10. Great score! Early Stude frames were flex-y and the coupe body helped control that. They don't take a lot of torque or weight without some reinforcement. Later '60's frames are stiffer. The front crossmember is huge also but you can squeeze a small block Chevy in there. The December '58 or '59 Hot Rod has a how-to on this common swap. Olds and Caddy engines fit also but taking weight off the front end reduces the tendency to snow-plow when braking.

    On mine, I replaced the front cross member with a Street Rod Engineering (Lake Havasu, Az) member and Flaming River rack and pinion to get some more room in there. I used the original frame rails, original radiator (280Z radiator works too) and a Ford 8-inch rear end. The rest of the car was original. Turning Wheels magazine from the Studebaker Drivers Club has vendors selling patch panels, inner fenders, upholstery, disc brake kits, etc. Double check your hood latches -these tend to come undone at speed and with no bracing in the hood, it crumples like a ball of tin foil.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    Nice score!!! I say keep it all Studebaker!! Stude V-8s are strong engines,put a four speed behind it and drive the wheels off!!! Please don't do the 350/350 route,everyone has done that!!! ROY.
     
  12. floydjer
    Joined: Feb 4, 2010
    Posts: 212

    floydjer
    BANNED

    And it even has a set of those stylin` one year only, 14" `58 wheel covers.
     
  13. The most common modern swap is an SBC, you can get the entire engine block behide the axle centerline without touching the firewall. HURST mount is the easiest way to go.

    The early hotrod swap was the Caddy from the same era. They were a bolt in. My understanding is that the Caddy mill and the Stude V-8 were designed by the same people.

    I have also seen them with baby hemis, big block Chevys, Packard V-8s and so on. You can shoe horn a Ford in there but you have to come up with a rear sump oil pan.

    There is some specualtion that a fella on here is shoe horning an Olds motor in one, but I know the fella pretty good and its really hard to tell what he will do.

    There is nothing in the world wrong with the stock king pin front suspension, and given the correct box there is nothing wrong with the stock box either. The Commander had an optional Saginaw box far superior to the Ross box that most of the Champs had in them.

    If you feel the need for disc brakes and are a good scrounger the '64 Avanti had twin piston bendix brakes, it used the same front suspension as your Starlight coupe. They are a bolt on. But if you are a low bucks kind of a fella the Commander (and perhaps the Champ) had very large finned drum brakes, they will stop a freight train.

    Back to engine swaps, by far the easiest setup for motor mounts is a front mount like a hurst mount or even stock mounts like from a '57 Chevy or caddy. It will help you solve the steering headachs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  14. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 2,283

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    I've always loved those cars. You might try googling Studillac, they used to put a lot of Cadillac engines in those (probably how they found out about the frame flex).
     
  15. triffid_98
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 12

    triffid_98
    Member
    from San Jose

    No big block for me. I'm sure that would do fairly ugly things to the handling.

    A stude V8 would be cool but (assuming I can get one) what semi-modern transmissions can you bolt up?

    Right now I'm thinking SBC / T-5 / 8" Ford

    If I can get a disc brake conversion for the factory suspension I'll probably do that. Is this a good one?

    http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/studebakerbrakekits.aspx

    Thanks for all the tips guys!
     
  16. ZZ-IRON
    Joined: Feb 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,964

    ZZ-IRON
    Member
    from Minnesota

    very cool looking forward to your 53 Stude coupe build lot 53/54 Stubebaker fans on Hamb

    hope to get going on my 53 coupes always looking for tech & tips & photos
     
  17. speedyb
    Joined: May 12, 2010
    Posts: 484

    speedyb
    Member
    from socal

    54 frames had an improved crossmember that picks up extra body mounts, fits 53 frame, don't give up on that stude power, there great motors. That stock steering turns very sharp and with the long wheel base of that car It's important!
     
  18. 55chevr
    Joined: Jul 12, 2008
    Posts: 985

    55chevr
    Member

  19. OldsRanch
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 185

    OldsRanch
    Member

    As far as engine weight and handling, I have a 455 pontiac with only alum intake. Its set back a fair amount tho. Its not a slot car, but I only get all over its ass when I am going in a straight line anyway. An SBC is a cheap way, but good lord, do we need another car with an SBC swap? Its your car, do as you wish. I'd do an olds, pontiac, or 472/500 cad if I was you.

    Regarding the brake swap, I had a lot of trouble and back-n-forth with the vendor that supplied mine, so I will let others chime in. I won't even accidentally get him any press by mentioning the name - so that even an unfortunate circumstance could benefit his business somehow. I don't like having to modify the living hell out of shit that was supposed to fit right out of the box (and wasnt cheap to start with), lets just say.

    On the rear axle swap, pay attention to how wide you make yours. I have 275/60-15s on 15x8s (with 4.5 backspace). You can't easily go bigger without jacking the car up or doing surgery.
     
  20. triffid_98
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 12

    triffid_98
    Member
    from San Jose

    I haven't even gotten the car yet, it's still in transit. I might go bigger (now that I know what will fit), I just don't want to build a death-sled.

    I used to have an olds 403 and I never had handling issues, but that car was also about 600lbs heavier.
     
  21. Dick Dake
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 788

    Dick Dake
    Member

  22. The Stude V-8 is a heavy pig by todays standards.
    You can overcome a lot of the heavy by setting the engine back. There is a lot of room to set one back on your coupe. Yes a bigger engine is going to weigh a bit more than an SBC but if you want something different you just learn to overcome the weight difference.
    I think the idea of the caddy 331 was that it was basically the same engine so no major weight gain but lumps of more torque.
     
  23. triffid_98
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 12

    triffid_98
    Member
    from San Jose

    I appreciate everyone's input, but with what it will cost to build a BBC ($6k+ for even a moderate performance build) I just don't see the benefit. I wish I did. Those 455 SD's were bad-ass in 73' and you can build a crazy-fast engine out of one, I just don't have the budget.

    Stock (at least around here), I can either have a smog-era 200ish hp 454/455 for around $1k that revs to around 4k or a 250hp Vortec 5700 (L31) that revs to 5.5k for $500. Both motors make more than enough torque to break the wheels free in this car (15x7) without a mini-tub and the Vortec has more top end power, better mpg and much cheaper mods.

    I've already heard Ford/Chrysler engines are a bad fit for this car due to oil pan/distributor clearance, so it's basically BBC vs SBC (or Pontiac/Olds/Caddy variants).

    If I'm off-base, please correct me. The only pre-smog car I have now is my 65' Dodge and I never saw the reason to build up something that can't handle. ( It's been a great truck though, I can easily haul 2 tons of crap with that 318 poly/727/Dana setup ). My 'fast' car is only 3.0L+boost.

    Thanks again for your help,

    -David
     
  24. Iron Crank
    Joined: Jun 23, 2010
    Posts: 65

    Iron Crank
    Member

    I have a '53 in the works. I'll round up some pics if you want.

    Mine also had a 6, but a friend sold me a fresh 259 v8 Stude he swapped for a hemi in his '56. The Studebaker v8 is solid, albeit heavy, heavy. Basically, its a rip-off of the '49-54 (I think) Cad 331. The later R2 Stude models were 289, with a nice cam, and were made until something like '63. As Studebaker was coughing up death moans it used Chevy engines. Internals are available. The guys making old Offy parts have started recasting a 331 Cad 2X2 intake. Really cool. It fits by hogging out two bolt holes. Like I said, the Stude v8 is basically a Caddy rip-off.

    I'm guessing you've found Studebaker Vendors on the web. There are some sheet metal parts, etc. available from Classic Enterprises. These generally need a lot of tweaking, but they work.

    Be very careful in inspecting the area around the bottom of the A pillar. This car, even with the post, is too flexible. The top hat frame was not great. If there is rot at the bottom of the A pillar, it goes from bad to hell. Classic has hood stiffeners. Advised!

    There is a guy who hops up the little Stude flathead 6 and it dresses up nice. I forget the name, but if he's not on Studebaker Vendors, I'll find it for you. The 3 speed overdrive had a hill-holder feature on some models. It's a nice tranny. The original BW auto in those things is junk, the rear end too. I put an 8" in from a v8 Maverick. The rear anti-sway I rigged up is cool. Let me know if you want pics.

    I put in a T5 from an S10. The adapter came from Berentsen. I am using a Hydraulic set up to move the throwout bearing shaft. Several outfits make an adapter kit to put a T350, or 700R4 behind the Studebaker v8.

    I believe the motor mounts for a chevy are available. Plenty of room.

    There is a good disc brake conversion available for the stock spindles. Again, if you can't find it on Studebaker Vendors, holler. BTY, I have most of one. I didn't use anything but the wheel bearings, as I went with a firewall mounted power master. I'm happy to try to figure out what you need and what's missing from my setup.

    Much monkey motion in the stock steering, with the center bell crank, etc. I rigged up a rack and pinion, but I found an R&P that's better, albeit steep in price. Let me know if you want some pointers. If you want R&P it would be cheaper to go with the Fatman MII clip. If I were doing it again, I'd go with the Fatman clip. The original front suspension sucks, but I was lazy, will try a heavy anti-sway bar from a later Hawk for now.

    I found a '56 dash. It's fiberglass, nice, with a flat center surface, bolts right up.

    What can I do to be helpful?
     
  25. Iron Crank
    Joined: Jun 23, 2010
    Posts: 65

    Iron Crank
    Member

    Oh, I forgot:

    Art Morrison makes a killer chassis for this car if you're breaking the bank. Some of his components would be good for firming up the stock frame.
     
  26. studedudeus
    Joined: Jun 11, 2008
    Posts: 141

    studedudeus
    Member

    There is a company in Knoxville called "Slick Street Stuff" that makes a tubular front suspension that doesn't require changing the crossmember. Includes tubular a-arms, and mounts for rack and pinion. The kit corrects some geometry issues, along with modern parts. It is meant for the 3000+ pound Studebakers, as it uses Ford Granada spindles instead of the lighter duty Mustang II stuff. It's lots easier than installing new crossmember or subframe. You can find them by googling Slick Street Stuff.

    Same guy also makes Fiberglas front end, doors, hood and decklid for the 53s. As well as a kit for mounting a modern powered dual master cylinder and swinging pedal.

    I assume you are planning to drive this thing when done, so do yourself a favor, think small block (Crysler, GM or Ford) and automatic. You can easily get 300-400 hp out of a small block and save lots of weight, which translates to better handling compaired to any big block or the stude power. As great as it is to bang those gears, you have to decide if it's worth the effort to put in a clutch pedal and all that linkage. Considering all the work you have a head of you, is it really necessary?
     
  27. Iron Crank
    Joined: Jun 23, 2010
    Posts: 65

    Iron Crank
    Member

    Early IFS systems have a problem or two in geometry, like the upper A arm is longer than the lower A arm, just the opposite of a modern IFS. Not great for weight transfers in corners. The front end system you refer to does not correct this basic problem. There are a few more problems as well.
     
  28. turbostude
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 343

    turbostude
    Member
    from minnesota

    Been racing one on the salt quite some time with three different engines: turbocharged flathead 6 Stude motor (190 ci), supercharged ford flathead v8 and right now a destroked stude v8 (182 ci) All capable of more than 150mph with some tuning. My favorite was the first, which dyno'd at 240 hp, 290 ft-lbs at 17# boost. It is easy to put a Chev 3 or 4 speed behind one. Call me if you like.
    320-282-4577
     
  29. lowstude
    Joined: May 19, 2010
    Posts: 7

    lowstude
    Member

    Greg's Turbostude sight is great. Lots of low buck and do it your self tips. I plan on doing a similiar build on my 1952 champ.
    Cathcarts Studebaker has a lot of dress up and performance stuff for the flathead six also.
    Dont give up on the six they look cool and sound sweet with dual exhaust.
     
  30. DamnYankeesKustoms
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 297

    DamnYankeesKustoms
    Member

    I love those old studes...

    My pops ex boss has two of those, one supposedly has the supercharged 289 and looks like an old gasser, the other just bone stock, they were his fathers and they sit out in the edge of the woods rotting away, and of course I begged him to sell them,but, you allready know the old saying...."gonna fix them up someday"
     

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