Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

A lot of these photos and discussions concern racing cars from 40, 50, even 60 years ago (I realize that's the threads purpose). The difference between that period of racing and today's racing is vast. It makes you wonder what's going to be happening 50 years from now. I know most of us won't be here, but maybe we should get out and take pics and gather stories of today's racing, too. The pro photographers can't be beat for photo quality, however those small personal shots I think are the best for memories. I live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast: not a hot bed of sprint car racing. So, it's up to you guys. It might even be nice if someone were to compile all of the info just on this thread. I'd love to have all of this history on a book shelf. Any of you promoters out there? There's a hell of a 1/2 mile high banked dirt track over near Mobile that's now closed. The Tampa Bay guys race up here at Mobile and Pensacola on asphalt once or twice a year, but dirt racing is missed. How about a midget show in the Superdome?

 

With the advent of digital cameras, cell phone cameras, youtube etc.etc. I don't think there is ever going to be a shortage of recording any aspect of our current and future lives. As far as racing, the question is; will anybody care in 50 years? Assembly line, cookie cutter, throwaway cars with stick-on graphics and no "personality" aren't that memerorable, at least in my opinion.

 

I AGREE with Rootie !!!!!!

 

I lived in Pensacola several years until 1992 and was not aware of the dirt track you mentioned, could you provide some more info?

I remember several little bull ring tracks in the area - Loxley,Al Opp,Al Baker,Fl and Southern Raceway at Pace,Fl but never knew there was a half in the area.

 

Contrary to Joe's recollection in the articel, it seems he qualified 9th at the Reading opener and retired from the heat race with a broken con-rod. He did, however, win the consy at Williams Grove a week later, and finished 7th in the main. At the Reading Fair in September, he led from flag to flag, although the race was stopped due to rain. He was second in the time trials (behind Van Johnson), 4th in the fast heat (won by Mike Magill from Johnny Thomson and Tommy Hinnershitz), and led Thomson, Hinnershitz, Magill, Johnson, Rex Records, Hank Rogers, Jiggs Peters, Bill Randall etc. to the chequered flag, so it was definitely no fluke!

In June of 1958, he won a pavement race at Thompson and a dirt race at Sandusky within seven days, beating Ed Elisian, A. J. Foyt, Eddie Sachs, Don Branson and Bud Tingelstad in the latter. Chet Wilson and Al Kitts may have won races before him, but against lesser opposition. Joe Barzda rules!

 

Rootie..and with Ken's hearty "I agree"...

Now THIS really made me chuckle. It is all a question of perspective, I suppose. And I love all the photos/history of all the Different Kinds and Different Designs of the various OLD race cars on this, and the midget thread.
My Dad had the SAME EXACT feeling 60 Years AGO!
As I worked side-by-side with him, restoring vintage race cars for 20 years or so, he never got tired of complaing that (in HIS opinion) one of the major factors that 'killed" midget racing was the success and dominance of the Kurtis Krafts. (also that fans eventually got more and more impatient for waiting for all the cars to be Pushed started, with no starters, etc) I think I heard him say/bitch a THOUSAND times! "If you took the paint off the cars, you would not be able to tell one car fom another, in the entire midget field!" He loved to keep experimenting and building new type midgets with new designs, new shapes, new ideas. But it grew harder and harder to sell them. EVERYBODY wanted a Kurtis Kraft! They won "almost" everything, everywhere for a long period. To satisfy what his customers wanted, He had to take to making KK copies, and sold a good bunch. We even made some 'exact' duplicate KK bodies & frames in the 80s. And Dad still had a few NOS body parts, some stampings, & patterns left, 30 years after throwing them in the "obsolete" piles.

 

Came across these pics on Chet Wilsons site http://www.chet-wilson.com/ThumbnailFrame.html Doesn't give any details other than a win by Walt McWorter in 1956. I find McWorter winning a IMCA feature at Belleville 1956 but don't think they had night races there back then (?) Anyway, that is Wilsons original "Offy Killer" a stretched midget that he ran in 56. Hard to say for sure but that may have been the first win by a SBC powered sprint car.

 

This was a CRA event. My best guess would be at the end of the '66 season, as I remember Mike Mosley didn't start driving the tamale wagon until about mid summer (and he started winning in it right away).

 

Deep South Speedway near Loxley. 4/10 high banked clay oval

 

I have to agree with that too .. even "Dutch" Schaefer (who kept midget racing alive in the east too) .. said pretty much the same when he was alive.

"Dutch" even predicted the NASCAR modified division eventually loosing popularity when they approved custom built chassis. .... Now some years later you have cookie cutter, store bought modifieds, cookie cutter Sprint Cup cars and more. Plus, they've sure lost lost of their popularity too.

Heck, NASCAR even approved the use of crate/spec. engines in their modified, truck and some other divisions. The article even noted the loss of competition engine builders.

I note the overall loss of good old shade tree innovation and engineering.

Whether midget, stock cars and what have you .. gone are the days when we saw either a midget or later a stock car parked outside of almost every every gas station &/or automotive repair shop.

SAD!!!!

 

Well said Mr. Ferner!!!!

 

I really like the responses and energy created about my "What about 50 years from now" post. There's only been two 50 year segments since the first Indy. I came in at the start of the second 50. They were still hand lettering, but fiberglass was big. Do you think the future will have unmanned, silent, solar powered, "green" vehicles that are identical in appearance, with no lettering or numbers because the ACLU feels everyone should be a winner? I think I'll mostly miss motel owners throwing a fit because some sprint car guy rebuilt an engine overnight and cleaned all the parts with gasoline and now the asphalt is dissolving.

 

50 years from now, race "vehicles" will probably be powered by flux capacitors and hover a foot off the ground. Of course by then the face of the planet will be covered in NIMBY's in their McMansions so there wont be any place to race them anyway.

 

At the Riverhead (NY) Raceway we once had a problem with the local Holiday Inn.

It seemed that the then NASCAR modified stock car champion .. the late Richie Evans .. had used the bathtub as a parts cleaner, while rebuilding his engine!!!!

 

Rootie and Ken: When I grow up - I want to be just like you guys.

 

I think in 1983 when I was running at Belleville, KS in the midget nationals, I walked past Barry Butterworth's room, (the Best Western "Thunderbird Inn") in Concordia, KS. He was rebuilding the VW motor for his midget on the dresser next to the TV set, parts all over the carpet, bed spread, still makes me laugh.

 

Only went to Loxley once or twice, didn't remember it as being that large.

Thanks

 

In the mean time they'll probably race some sort of electric car .. that will make less noise than the soft WHOOOOOSH of the STP / Ganatelli Indy turbine cars.

No matter what, we have to face the fact that racing as we knew & know it will be gone in the future .. that's why it's so important to preserve not only the cars .. but also the rich history of this sport .... and do it in a much more permanent way than this wonderful Web Site.

 

I don't get it??? isn't that a normal thing?

I have a kind of funny story along these lines, we were racing At Volusia County Speedway and we were all staying at the Daytona INN, whole parking lot full of race cars, everyone working on their cars in the parking lot, anyway Michael Lang drains his oil and decides to go over and dump it in this big trash dumpster, and we hear this screaming and yelling scared the hell out of Michael he drops the drain pan and all of a sudden this homeless guy comes out of the top of the dumpster covered in Valvoline 20w50 screaming at the top of his lungs, apparently he slept in the dumpster and Mike had just filled his bedroom with oil

 

sure looks like that car has independent suspension

 

That looks like a early 1950s Formula 3 car (with a 500cc engine I believe). These cars were most active in Great Britain with several later Formula One drivers getting a start in them. The real question is how did the car get on what appears to be an American dirt track. There must be a story here somewhere.

 

I'm guessing that is an English or European Formula 3 or Formula 2 rear engined car.

Probably an American track, possibly heavily oiled dirt?????

 

Looks a lot like a early 50s formula 500 road racer like this Cooper. Might have been doing some testing on a dirt track.

 

I think I have it...

It's an Effyh formula 3 car built in Sweden.

I owned a Cooper formula 3 car back in the late 50's so have much first hand knowledge of how they were built.

They were very sophisticated for the time and were a road racing counterpart to our dirt track midgets. The wheelbase was about the same, most were air cooled motorcycle engined and limited to 500cc or 30.5 cubic inches. Mine was a JAP (J A Prestwich) single 14:1 running alcohol, like our Offies, the hot cars had the Double Knocker Nortons.

They had 15" wheels, motorcycle gearboxes with a hand operated clutch/shifter, chain drive, and carried a lot of fuel. Suspension on the Cooper was independent front and rear using Fiat Topolino cross springs with A arms.

There were very few of them brought to the U.S and I always was the only one that showed up in the races I ran in the midwest.

A guy by the name of Stirling Moss was perhaps the most notable driver that came out of the training ground that these cars provided for aspiring Grand Prix drivers, however the vast majority I believe were used for lesser circuits and fun club racing mostly in England but also Denmark and other countries that I'm not sure of.

 

Moss, Jim Russel, Peter Collins are among those that got their start in formula 3/500s.