History Did Ford design the OHV before Chevy?

yeah, that's a fact. But that's not what he claimed, is it?

 

I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention the'54 Y block! OK, now that we settled that, did you know that the first 600 or so Model "T"'s had engines built by the Dodge Brothers?
And BTW, all those Chev 4's from the 'teens were OHV., and all the stovebolt 6's, don't they count?

 

Yup, he also designed the Olds and Caddy. The Olds is actually considered the first slipper piston engine design, must have beat caddy out of the gate I guess.
As far as obscurities, who knows what those guys were all playing with in their R&D departments. Hell. the OHC was around when Ford and Chevy were both running flathead 4 bangers.

 

I believe there were Europian manufactures building overhead valve and overhead cams long before the US manufactures did

 

Hmm,I`m a Ford guy and NEVER heard of that urban legend.

 

Thats why we have ford men and we have chev men,to keep this bull shit rolling along.....

 

Not sure how many of you are aware of this or not but. Ford Motor Company as we know it today is at least Henry's second venture into the automobile industry. The first Ford Motor Company ended with Henry receiving his name back and I believe $900 cash in hand. That company was renamed Detroit Motor Company and eventually renamed to Cadillac. That being said Henry Ford was the predecessor to Cadillac and thus GMC.
This is my first post here but look me up on Garage Journal. Been there since '09.

 

Another Jester! Hahahahahahahahahahah
The King is dead (flathead) long live the King (SBC)

 

Wanna see a sweet early engine, check out the Ford GAA- aluminum V8, side-oiler, 4-bolt mains with splayed bolts, double overhead cam, 4 valve, twin carbs. etc.- in 1937. Used in the Sherman and Pershing tanks in WWII, and still being used in pulling tractors and even a late Mustang drag car- type in Ford GAA on youtube

 

I guess Burbank, IL isn't urban enough for the story to have reached you!

 

Here's one 1917 chevy OHV, its for sale.Highest bid.

 

Kind of off the OP topic but GM tried to buy Ford from Henry. They even agreed on a price. But true to GM's acquiring other car companies by paying for them with company stock, the deal went south when Henry demanded real money.

 

Close, but not quite completely accurate

The Detroit Automobile Co was founded Aug. 5, 1899 by Henry Ford after he secured $15,000 in financial backing from three investors: Detroit Mayor William Maybury, William Murray, and Senator Thomas Palmer. The company floundered and was dissolved in January 1901 after building a total of 20 vehicles and losing $86,000 ($2.11 million in 2007 dollars)

The Henry Ford Company was founded November 3, 1901 with $28,000 cash from 15 investors, including John and Horace Dodge. This is the company that fired Ford and replaced him with Henry Leland, becoming the Cadillac Motor Co. on August 22, 1902.

Then, at age 40, Henry Ford incorporated the Ford Motor Co. on June 16, 1903.

 

It was actually two-thirds of an intended V12 aircraft engine, and as such it was a 60-degree motor. Ford found no market for the fly-motor but a big one for a tank motor, so...chop.

Which brings up another trivia question, probably asked on here before: the GAA family (GAA, GAM, etc.) was Ford's first 60-degree DOHC four-valve all-aluminum V8. What was the second?

(Much later, much smaller, and Ford neither really designed nor built it, but it went out the door in a Ford product with Ford on the cam covers, a very similar design - different block but all the same major dimensions save bore - is still built by the firm that designed and built them for Ford but it now goes out the door in yet another make of vehicle.)

 

Yes I was close but not quite right. Did a bit more investigation and found where I misquoted.

With the help of C. Harold Wills, Ford designed, built, and successfully raced a 26-horsepower automobile in October 1901. With this success, Murphy and other stockholders in the Detroit Automobile Company formed the Henry Ford Company on November 30, 1901, with Ford as chief engineer.<sup id="cite_ref-hfha-Bryan2_10-0" class="reference">[11]</sup> However, Murphy brought in Henry M. Leland as a consultant and, as a result, Ford left the company bearing his name in 1902. With Ford gone, Murphy renamed the company the Cadillac Automobile Company.

Here is what got me to misquote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford_Company

Regardless GMC will never admit that they have roots with Ford. GMC is one company that no matter what they have for sale I WILL NOT PURCHASE. But that is neither here nor there.

 

I'll bite - what was the second?

Steve

 

Oh, Ford Motor Company's first OHV V-8 was introduced in 1952 in the Lincoln, two years before it was offered in Ford and Mercury

 

90's Taurus SHO. Engine was built with/by Yamaha. Yes, the Japanese motorcycle company. 3.4 litre, based on the Duratec V-6.

What do I win?

 

Was there a V8? I thought all the SHO were V6.

 

That kind of info is a short & really easy internet seach away.


Please post things that are Relevant and On Topic.

 

What about how Zora biased the Ardun on a Talbot design then the mysterious meetings with Chrysler executives and boom! It's a hemi!

 

GM purchased Cadillac in 1909 so there is no "roots" with Ford. Boy, you fo-moco lovers really like to twist things around. By the way Chevrolet used the Mercury name years before Ford decided to use it. Chevrolet U.S.A-1

 

Is It wrong to like both companys, or do i have to choose one, or walk the plank?!!

 

I believe Olds also used the same V8 in 1917.

 

the first chrysler hemi was in a plane, long before 1947 when Ardun introduced the conversion heads. The first v8 passenger car hemi was tested as early as 1948 in Detroit.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/chrysler-hemi.html

 

The whole Ford vs Chevy thing works all kind of magic into the world of reality.

As to the OHV motor I believe David Dunbar Buick worked on the principle around 1900 and had a working model around 1904. I have not researched it extensively but have a note here and there and never ran across anything to really dispute it. Can't swear my life on it though. Arthur Chevrolet secured a patent for some of the OHV principles but I believe he was somewhat late to the party (probably after the Chevrolet OHV motor of 1916/1917).

Most everything "developed" in the forties and fifties was old hat by about 30 years. If you were to study some of the racing engines in Europe and the US during the teens you will see they knew all about the advantages of the Hemi and used the design (save for possibly the placement of the spark plug possibly, although someone may have even got that right in the teens).

As to the Ford morphing into Cadillac it is sad and amazing that neither Ford Motor Co. nor Cadillac Motor Division have spent any real effort to get their early history correct. I researched that topic for years and have yet to read what I feel is a totally accurate account that can be backed up with accurate footnotes. GM's history of Cadillac is based on Wilfred Leland's account he wrote about in his book "Master of Precision" a book he wrote in the forties when he was in his eighties (much from memory). Ford's account is questionable as well . Leland wants to toot his own horn a bit which is understandable of course and Ford does not want to look bad, also understandable so we get history that for lack of a better term is a mess.

Here is a copy of the letter wherein the incorporators are calling for a meeting. At the meeting the name was changed to Cadillac. Ford had been long gone by this date as he had left in March of 1902. My research has shown he was very interested in building his new racecars (which would become the 999 and the Arrow) which I believe were designed mainly by Oliver Barthel, although Wills would go on to actually refine the designs and help build the cars more than likely. Murphy liked what Ford's first racecar "Sweepstakes" did for the company in principle but Murphy who was the man behind the curtain wanted to build a production car and Ford was apparently still bitten by the short lived racing bug. Sweepstakes did a lot for his reputation and he felt possibly better racecars would do even more to solidify his rep.

Also including a pic of Sweepstakes with Ford driving and Barthel as the passenger.

Discussion of these topics could fill volumes and probably solve little. Keeps the blood moving I suppose-Jim

 

Re: "Did Ford design the OHV before
Chevy??" - Jeez! This is one of the
most ridiculous questions that's ever
been asked on the H.A.M.B. The answer
is "No, absolutely not!". The "Ford
had OHVs before Chevy" and "Ford
designed the small-block Chevy" etc.,
etc" are myths and urban legends, spread
by know-nothing dim-witted idiots and
hop-heads! Damn - I thought everyone
here at least, knew that Henway Motors
Corporation had overhead valves, overhead
cams and even small and big-block V8's in
production as far back as 1898! And as to
the "Ford designed the SBC" urban
legend - absolutely no on that one too! The
truth is that the SBC, the Y-block Ford and
even the Chrysler Hemi were all originally,
proprietary Henway designs, all developed
'in-house' between 1932 and 1935 , solely
by HMC engineering teams, each working
independently of each other and in secret.
(Ok, the Chrysler Hemi was actually originally
a Dikfor Motors design, developed by Dikfor
engineers in 1930-'31 - but Henway obtained
the design and perfected it, after Dikfor
Motors went absolutely 'tits-up broke' in
early 1933 - and Henway bought the assets
of the company, 'lock, stock and barrel'
from the receiver.) Unfortunately for
Henway though. in 1935 - before any of
these three 'way, way advanced for the time'
"Small Block", "Y-Block and "Hemi"
engine designs could be put into production,
Henway suddenly changed direction and on
very bad advice of their newly-hired 'Head
of Engineering', Hermann H. Krackpotkin,
they decided to abandon any and all further
development of 'over-head-valve' engines
and concentrate instead, on developing a
new, but not really even theoretically feasible,
line of 'quad-cross-compound-tubo'd, sleeve-valve
V12s'! I'm sure everyone here knows what
a technological fiasco and an environmental
and financial disaster the V12's turned out to
be when they eventually went into production.
They were so much of a disaster in fact, that
the engines very nearly bankrupted HMC,
ruined the company's reputation with
consumers for years to come and set HMC
back technologically, by at least 20 years.
And things went bad right from the very
beginning too. In order to raise initial
development funds for Krackpotkin's new
line of V12's - or "Krackpotkin's ticking,
smoking, time bombs" as they quickly
became known as - once again, on
Krackpotkin's ill-advice, Henway listed
their already existing and 'nearly ready
for production' "Small-Block", "Y-Block"
and "Hemi" V8 engine designs for sale
on the the internet, via ebay, where the
designs, molds and patterns were quickly
snapped up - literally for mere pennies on
the dollar too - by GM, Ford and Chrysler
respectively. The rest of course is history,
but now at least, you know the truth -
and the "rest of the story"!

Mart3406 ("Official Henway Motors
Corporate Historian and Archivist")
==========================

 

Who cares. Olds and Caddillac had OHV V-8s before the SBC as well as Studebaker, and Desoto, Chrysler and Dodge.

GM had valve in head inline 6s way back in the '30s and Willys had half a valve in head engine while Ford was still selling the flatty.

 

Hey, we're just having a casual discussion about engines, what the hell you busting my chops for?

 

At last years lone star round up, i was told by an old guy that HENRY was a cross dresser, im pretty sure it is true i mean who would bullshit about that?