Calling all Body men. Question about hammer/dolly.

That's exactly where it is, I have a disc and have used it before, but again, i'm not confident enough in using it on a project which i need to finish now.

 

I do not have the talent or experience that a lot of the others have on here but looking at your pictures and where the bulge is located it would seem that you need to heat/shrink a larger area to get it flattened out. Is the bulge stretched out or is the area around the bulge shrunk in to much ?

 

If it's not moving around anymore it may be work hardened. I've never done that and I don't know if it can be done or how to fix it. I didn't see this mentioned in any of the other threads, maybe someone with more experience than me can tell us if that could possibly be the case.

 

I'm not sure, but its being stubborn. I've hardened metal before when i first started learning, by quenching sheetmetal trying to shrink it. I have not applied any water cooling methods on this part yet

 

A high spot like that shouldn't take more than 3 dime size seperate shrinks. You won't get it with one i don't think. Like i said earlier. Hammer and dolly around the hot spot on the edge of the hot spot with a side hit toward the hot spot all around in rapid succession letting your dolly bouce with the hits. You'll actualy get a little rhythem going. Lightly dolly the hot spot With a few taps and cool with air from a distance of a foot or so. Don't use a cold wet rag. It hardens the metal. Air does to a bit but i find it works best generaly.
Set your self up so you can put your torch down in a safe manner on a stand of some sort or hand it to a buddy. No time to turn off torch, get your dolly and hammer.Get ready to start dollying immediatly. I try to have the dolly ready in hand on the other side with the hammer ready to grab. It's time sensitive. Maybe you waiting to long after you heat your spot.
Hope this helps. Love to go to california for that lunch. but......

 

Thanks for chiming in again Ted, Im going to give this a go tomorrow using the dime size heat shrink method. do i start my first heat spot dead center, or perhaps on the outer area of the bulge?

 

Hard to say without realy being there How big is that bump if you drew a circle around it? Generaly the crown is the first but not being there to 'read' the metal, i can't say for sure. Sometimes after shrinking it level a oil can can appear. Frustrating when that happens. A baby shrink can get it or you may have to stretch the metal again abit because the metal shrinks to much. Bump it out from the other side with the dolly.

 

okaaaay...what i said earlier isn't correct for what you've got...the photos are a huge help lol Ted is correct in what he's telling you but I'm gona add a bit more info...if these pics are correct (all be it low tech!! ) then heres how I would fix it...
First method is to use small shrinks no more than a half inch across in the pattern I've drawn them. This is VERY important in order to 'trap' the fullness in the panel. Its possible to move the lump across to the edge of the panel but not necessary here...although that would be far preferable than moving it onto the middle of the panel!!
Lets not confuse your issue tho...
as Ted has said you do need to move QUICKLY when you've ready to take the heat back off the spot....so I use an axle stand or get a helper to hold the torch..have the dolly ready behind and hammer right there

The second alternative if your confident enough is to heat the entire area cherry red ...then smack it inwards with a couple of firm hits.This 'upsets' the grain in the metal allowing it to move. you MUST use a dolly that matches the original crown of the panel! when you smack that in then begin to hammer/dolly the shape and m***age the metal back into a uniform surface.

Shrinking is a real skill and it takes quite a while to master. The latter method works good in some cases and was used in the military I believe when repairing vehicles QUICKLY and gettin them back to the field.I've used it a few times myself.

I would love to video something for you or take you up on that lunch!!
Rather a long winded explanation I know but hope it helps you or one of the readers PB

 

How do those guys that hammer shape fenders and bowls planish their bulges without using a planishing hammer?

 

Thank you Ted and thank you Fleet. Also everyone else who's shared their wisdom.

 

if you get have a bulge in a bowl you can either shrink it down or work the metal out into in the surrounding panel...ie stretch the rest of it

 

Do I want to use a high crown hammer or low, or even flat face?..When heat shrinking.

 

Hey,

Just some questions: Is there any old damage or filler in the area surrounding where you're trying to straighten? Are there pinch welds or double walled construction next to the area? Does the area you're trying to shrink move at all, or is that the knot?

It does look as if you've stretched it a bit by over slapping on-dolly. Have you tried any off-dolly hits on the panel? I'm gonna guess that your hot shrinks were allowed to cool too much before you hit them with the hammer which explains the high/hard metal still in the panel. Looks to me as if three good hot shrinks would pull this into shape. Remember, if your shrinks cool off too much before you get to the hammer & dolly work all you've done is raised a high spot in the panel with the heat.

Under the heading of " Butchery Body Work" you could cut a slit through the high area or gently tap the high metal down with a pick hammer into the reverse crown of a general purpose dolly to shrink this high area. Neither of these methods will get anyone to take their hat off to you, but if you run outa options these would be two of the poorest!

" Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "

 

this is the hammer I would use... Its a snap-on plannishing hammer and its the one I use for most of my work

 

these are the ones I WOULDN"T use...or maybe..dependin on the customer

the dolly I've shown is the one I have found the most useful of all my dollies over the 20sum years I been bangin metal
the serated face hammers are great for lifting up low spots on high crown panels
the ******* file of 'flipper' as we call them here is the best tool for ironing out waves in low-crown or flat panels and takes a little practise to get used to

 

How long did you work on it, before deciding it wasn't working? WIth heat, it should be a pretty quick job, but less control and predictability. Cold shrinking it would take MUCH longer, but with more control.
Patience, Gr***hopper!

 

I have an ancient body book that many guys know of written by C.E.Packer I think.

Very similar to what Fleet showed;

It shows a same bulge in the center of a late 20's fairly flat door. They show 5 heat spots around the outer part. Each one gets flattened down as the red heat causes a sharp rise. Just dolly the new rise down then heat the next in a circle. Then they did the center last.

Then you need to let it cool to see where you are.

I do use a wire hook on the torch and have a stand right there to hook it on, but even that slows you down. Got a friend to p*** the torch to? That would help.

 

I like #1. ****o bash dent gooooood!

 

In case you are reading the thread today while maybe having problems..

I worked another one out of my lower door skin just now. The pattern of heats ended up a 5 in a curved line. I did 2 first because it was obvious these spots were needing the hammer shrink.

I know that is is so easy to do too much, so I let it cool as I worked out the small highs and lows you will get with this method.

I ended up with 3 more heat/dolly, but 1 at a time to let cool to see what was happening. When it got real close when cold, I ended up with a light oilcan. Rather than go more heat, I went after every tiny high and low for a half hour, using a sanding block to find them. That made the oilcan go away. I am glad I did not do one more heat, especially on a door skin.

It seems like if the red spot raises up real quick and high, that area is stretched bad and under stress. Then just flatten that general area, not the whole thing.

 

nothing to add besides what has been said already, shrinking metal is a process that needs to be taught hands on by a pro, or by practicing on an old panel til it's perfected. every panel can be different also, depending where it is on the panel. sometimes a high spot on a body line or near a wheel lip can be taken care of by pushing the high spot towards a curve in the steel, but a high spot in the center of a panel is the one that takes practice and cannot be mastered first time out. i see in a previous post that you hammered and dollied for an hour with no results, so i'm going to suggest what pimpin' said and slice and weld the panel carefully so as not to belly it by welding. we won't hold it against you because the panel might be stretched to **** by now anyway and you might be just chasing your tail. not trying to be a smart***, but knowing how and when to use heat on a panel comes with years a practice, seeing every scenario can be a different process in shrinking. after time you'll either get the hang of shrinking, or better yet, getting to know what hammers and dollies to use to avoid stretching the metal in the first place. remember, any tool in the box is only as good as the person using it. patience and practice.

 

Reporting back.. It worked, I did exactly as you all advised and the bulge is now shrunken, not 100% yet, I only did 3 heat shrinks. I'd say it needs At least 2 more. It's a good feeling. Thanks to my mom for grabbing the torch. I think she tried blowing it out.
Pics

 

There is a low spot south of the bulge so it's size was and is probably exaggerated

 

Hey,

COOL! It's good ya had mom to help out, wish mine was still around.

Maybe two-three hot & fast shrinks and you'll be home free!

Now you can take on a stretch in the middle of a hood panel or roof Much moe fun!

" S****y Devils C.C. "

 

I had to go back to page 2 to compare. Yes, it's getting there. Your work is mint compared to mine.

Any problems during heating/dollying , like the whole panel going nuts?


I am still trying to get better at what was said about "trapping" the stretch on the first heats.

I am fairly happy with what I've done in the last few days.

 

No issues whatsoever. Just afew little thing that need planishing.

 

the little spot just south of the bulg can help you get the rest of the bulge out just push out on the low spot as you dit the bulge with glancing taps or as I like to call them sliding taps towards the low spot your low spot will come out and your bulge will shrink some more.

 

This is where i left off last, bulge almost gone away.. today i decided to try a few more heat shrinks and got even closer, then a few more and i screwed it up even worse. more bulge. i cant get it right so im going to take it to a local body shop and see if he can help me out.. seems like every metal i touch gets messed up beyond my control. pissed off

this is when i did my first set of heat shrinks and was happy



this is now, after atempting a few more


like i said before theres kind of low-spots below and on the window side of the bulge, i dont know what to do with them due to inner cab bracing

 

so you had it, screwed it up, and now are giving up?????? YOURE LEARNING...get back to it! none of us got to where we are by giving in to something that we screwed up.....Take a break, and retrace your steps...you had it close, then what happened? when you know your answer, move on, Why did it happen? etc...Then go back at it....




oh, and if I read your statement wrong, sorry haha

 

I'll get back to it, but I'm going to see if the guys at the body shop can show me first hand, since I've been going off just text and theories.