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History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    1903 Phelps Runabout Automobile

    The Phelps automobile was made the Phelps Automobile Co. made in Stoneham, MA from 1903-1905.

    The unusual feature about this car is that the entire body could be lifted backwards to allow easy access to the mechanical parts.

    The factory closed because the owner wanted to retire. This automobile is just one example of the rarity of the automobiles on;

    www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com.
     

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  2. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoofCord/Jim, THANKS for bringing up the 1909 race travesty again, wherein Ford got great, undeserved publicity. And instead of a shot in the arm, Shawmut, the actual race winner and in need of a homerun, got shafted.

    Also, THANKS for plugging Royal Feltner's site. He's a genuine good guy, and he's put a piece of his heart and soul into building as thorough a site as possible. He's improved navigation and still could use a search feature. But it's, nevertheless, a quality resource AND very entertaining for anybody with 10W40 in their veins!
     
  3. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    This is the best photo I have seen of a U.S.-made Singer. I ran onto this on what appears to be a Spanish site. I don't speak Spanish, but if I interpret this correctly, I believe it says the Singer was built in Mt. Vernon, N.Y., by the Singer Motor Co. and featured a trademark Vee-radiator shell. Base engine, a big Herschell-Spillman six with available Weideley V-12. These were quite costly, ranging to more than $7 grand.:eek:

    Unlike the long-lived (and unrelated:eek:) British Singer, the Yank Singer was only made from 1915 through 1920. Sharp car! Any exist today, or is the American Singer EXTINCT:mad:??? (Royal shows a Singer on his site, but it looks British.)

    More research needed, but I believe the Singer may have evolved from the lines of Partin-Palmer and/or Palmer-Singer. Help, folks! :confused: Lots NOT known here.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    The current owner of this Fina Sport 4-seat roadster claims that it was shown at Motorama in 1955. It was apparently the craft of Perry Fina of New York City, who built them in several body styles. This one has somehow ended up a major project.

    1955 Fina Sport Cadillac

    The Fina-Sport was built by Perry Fina of Fina Imported Motor Car Co., New York City. In the early 1950s. Perry Fina's specialty was building and tuning fine imported cars.

    Among his many creations was this beautiful American Automobile, a 4-passenger sports roadster. The Fina-Sport was also built as a four passenger convertible with a Continental Kit.

    The Fina-Sport cost $9800 in the early 1950s.

    Perry's (USA) specialty was building and tuning fine imported cars. Among the creations made by the American-Italian duo was this 4-passenger sports roadster.

    Here are excerpts from the press release describing this 18-foot-long convertible;

    In addition to such fancy accessories as Carlo Borrani wire racing wheels with "knock-off" hubs, Continental mounted spare wheel and tire, radio, heater, defroster, 6,000 RPM tachometer, the Italo-American creation also features fully adjustable airplane-type reclining seats and a manually adjustable André Tele-Control shock absorbing system.

    The sleek body ... is upholstered entirely in genuine calfskin leather ... the tire size is 6:50 x 16". Suspension in the front is by coil springs, aircraft shock absorbers and manually adjustable tele-control shocks; the rear suspension is the same except semi-elliptical springs are employed instead of coil springs.

    The Fina Sport is fitted with two sets of Marchal lights, one for driving in normal traffic, another for night-time highway touring; these are fitted gracefully into the radiator grille.

    The very professional looking steering wheel is of the competition type being made by Nardi-Denise of Italy. The wheel frame itself is made of Aircraft Dural and polished Hunduran Mahogany; lock to lock 2½ turns.

    Other features of this automotive masterpiece include a panoramic “wrap-around” windshield, Rochester 4-barrel carburetor, automatic windshield washer, electric windshield wiper, 22 square feet of luggage space and triple-chromium plated fittings.

    This car had optional power brakes, a 3.31:1 rear axle and an estimated top speed of 120 MPH. Overall height with top up was 56″.
     

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  5. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Here's the Shawmut after the transcontinental race
    of 1909. :D The fire had already made it the ONLY re-
    maining Shawmut. :eek: The judges' ignoring Ford's illegal
    mid-race engine swap gave Ford the victory :mad: -- and a
    sales boost -- while Shawmut, unable to raise mone-
    tary backing, went out of business:(, though everyone
    paying attention KNEW they'd won:eek:! BTW, no one
    saved this single survivor, so Shawmut is EXTINCT:mad: .
     
  6. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Coming to an Auction near you;

    1938 Curtis Aerocar

    The cab looks like a '38 Chevrolet to me.
     

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  7. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Yes, it's Chevy. Not the Internationals so-called Commander Ghatti use on his 6-7 trips, mainly to Africa, as I recall.
     
  8. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    The hangar car also carried a Palmer-Singer automobile, the official chase car for the transcontinental trip. Whenever Cal would go down, the train would stop and the crew would unload the auto. Then they'd drive around until they found him. It usually wasn't hard -- news of an airplane landing traveled fast in 1911.

    http://www.wright-brothers.org/TBR/History/History of Airplane/fixherup.htm
     

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  9. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Not the Singer Jimi is looking for but a Singer car of later manufacture.
    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="no-border allsizes-sizes"><th>
    </th> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td>
    </td> <td class="allsizes-selected">
    </td> <td>
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> [​IMG]
     
  10. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Hell, THAT is a nice car! "Plastic" body"? Year? Yes, of course it is the OLDER (and WAY more long-lived) British Singer, but I'll bet FEW were built . . . and few, if any, survive! NICE find, Jim!!!

    And didn't the Brit SINGER marque eventually get absorbed into the Rootes groups AND produce some cool cars like the Sunbeam Alpine? I hope I didn't mention something post-'65 there.
    <!-- / message -->
     
  11. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    When Charles Metz acquired the failed Waltham auto company of Waltham, MA, in 1908, he needed capital to pay off Waltham's debts and devised a plan -- the Metz Plan -- that would have made Preston Tucker smile.

    From 1909 through 1911, Metz went on to sell nearly 40,000 automobiles by mail order, in 14 kits at $25 each -- $350! His hook was that a buyer with mechanical ability and tools could assemble a good car at a saving of about $200 off a completed car. Since the last kits weren't even designed when the early ones were sold, some complaints did accrue from quick assemblers; but, the FTC must not have been in existence back then, as the Metz Plan was a success! Capital was, indeed, raised, enabling Metz to market factory-finished cars thereafter.

    I know of ONE actual Metz Plan car -- so it's NOT EXTINCT, just pretty rare. Anybody else?

    [​IMG]

    Railroad train station at Tazwell, Virginia, with a completed Metz Plan auto, apparently
    on "public display" by a proud, self-reliant owner. And is that an inter-urban there
    on the far right???


    [​IMG]

    Self-congratulatory 1910 Metz Plan promo ad. The copy tells quite a story!
    Sincere THANKS to American-Automobiles!
     
  12. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    Shawmut:

    [​IMG]
    Part Caption: Briarcliff race - Hillard in H T Shawmut
    http://luirig.altervista.org/naturaitaliana/viewpics.php?title=Breynia+disticha

    .........................................

    Another photo of the Shawmut and Ford:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/62584.html?1218729999

    [​IMG]


    ....................................


    [​IMG]

    Shawmut Coast-to-Coast Car
    Comments: Shawmut car, manufactured in Stoneham, MA participated in the coast-to-coast race in 1909.
    Contributor: Debbie Pettengill (ID# 1162)
    Date: 1909 / 6 /
    Where: Stoneham
    Who: True Arthur Pettengill (driver)


    http://www.massmemories.net/Stoneham.php?pageNum_Images=2&totalRows_Images=417

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/12/the-great-race.html
     
  13. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast


    Kjell Qvale - 1952 - fibreglass body initially over an (English) Singer chassis:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/?p=10097
     
  14. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast





    [​IMG]

    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4129/Ferrari-375-America-Vignale-Coupe.html



    [​IMG]

    http://www.cadillacdatabase.org/Dbas_txt/Drm54.htm

    Is there a family resemblance? :confused:

    Vignale used similar (with a little imagination and poor eyesight :)) on the Lancia Aurelia's of 1950-52.
     
  15. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Jim, thanks for mentioning that the Phelps (1903-05) was actually built in the Stoneham, MA, factory eventually occupied by Shawmut (1905-09).

    Just as Hudson (1909-54) was preceded by Aerocar (1905-08), I think it's kind of fascinating that a lot of folks, particularly automotive lay folk, see a DEFUNCT make like Shawmut or Hudson without ever stopping to THINK that those now-obscure companies may have been prefaced by other, even more obscure, makes! :eek:

    Anyway, given the price up to $2 grand and the early era, I'd be guessing that Phelps is EXTINCT . Hopefully somebody out there can show otherwise, though!
    The construction of the 1,500-pound Phelps seems to point up that the shape and composition of WHAT WAS A CAR was still very much up in the air shortly after the turn of the century! :rolleyes: The frame was "armored" wood, to use the factory's term. The water-cooled 15-horse engine was a vertical three-cylinder, up front, and coupled to a three-speed transmission. Though it doesn't show in the photos here, the Phelps supposedly offered a tonneau, to accommodated four passengers in all.

    Also, I always enjoy the tiller-steering of the oldies. And these two pics show Phelps' transition from tiller to steering wheel. Check the UPRIGHT mounting of that wheel.:p


    [​IMG]

    1901 Phelps, THANKS to HAMBer MrFire, from one of the vintage threads.

    [​IMG]

    1903 Phelps Runabout, thanks to Royal Feltner via SunRoofCord
    from yesterday's post.
     
  16. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    There are 5 Metz Plan cars listed in the 2010 HCCA directory, 2 1909's owned by the same person in Connecticut, a 1910 in Michigan, a 1911 in Australia, and another 1911 in California. All are Runabouts.
     
  17. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    The Moxie is not new to this thread but now you have a chance to have your very own Moxie Replica.

    Known for its strong rich flavor, Moxie soda is the oldest continuously produced soft drink in the United States. First produced in 1884, Moxie soda was so popular by the turn of the century that the word &#8220;moxie&#8221; was popularly adopted to mean "courage, daring, and energy," as in "This guy's got moxie!" In 1918, Moxie began deploying a small fleet of publicity cars known as Moxie Horsemobiles or Moxiecars, each with a modified chassis whose driver sat perched atop a statue of a horse.

    HIGHLIGHTS

    - Only 7 or so were originally built and only 1 original LaSalle Moxie car exists today

    - They built one Rolls Royce and with the approval of Moxie soft drinks

    - This Rolls Royce was commissioned to be built

    - Moxie Soft Drink is still in existence today and this car has been used at some events for advertising

    - This car was one of the few advertising cars that was on special exhibit in 2006 at Amelia Island Concourse D'Elegance

    - Built for the ease of driving, this vehicle is now powered by a Ford small block with an automatic transmission

    - Great vehicle and attention getter for car shows, parades and cruise nights

    - Fully drivable

    - Over $100,000 invested by a private collector to produce this car
     

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  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoofCord said: There are FIVE Metz Plan cars listed in the 2010 HCCA directory, 2 1909's owned by the same person in Connecticut, a 1910 in Michigan, a 1911 in Australia, and another 1911 in California. All are Runabouts.

    Jimi: ASK, and ye shall receive! SunRoof Jim is da man!

    Jim, that would put the Metz Plan in the Ultra-Rare category as I see it -- at least until somebody can turn up hard evidence that more survived. As with the Luverne and others that were made for several years, it is hard to BELIEVE that so many makes got crushed out of existence, recycled or just rusted away -- but many did just that, eh? When one thinks of more than 3,500 Metz Plan mail-order cars being sold, it almost defies reason. During the run of this thread, I have gained a MUCH greater appreciation of the impact of the WWII scrap drives, as well!
     
  19. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    1909 RELIABLE DAYTON MODEL F

    William O. Dayton's Reliable Dayton automobiles were conceived and constructed specifically for reliability and as such they broke no new ground.

    Their simplicity and strength inspired confidence, as did their immense ground clearance of their tall wood spoke wheels and solid rubber tires, among skeptical farmers, rural businesses and mobile professionals like doctors to whom the new-fangled automobile's utility was attractive.

    A 2-cylinder 4-cycle engine was placed under the seats with a 2-speed planetary transmission and chain drive.

    Tiller steering from the right hand side was intuitive and a small front hood housed the fuel and cooling water tanks.

    This Reliable Dayton is believed to be the only complete, running surviving example of the marque, and one of only three known.

    Its present restoration was completed a few years ago on the sound and largely complete museum-displayed original car and is resplendent in bright black with red wood wheels, black leather upholstery and leatherette top and abundant brass trim including the acetylene headlights and pedestal spotlight mounted on the right running board, Warner clock, kerosene sidelights, bulb horn, windshield frame and kerosene taillight.

    A delightfully original unrestored old trunk is mounted behind the body, a reminder of the Reliable Dayton's condition before it was restored.

    It is a showpiece that will be a welcome participant in one and two cylinder tours but is most fitting as garage art.

    GARAGE ART????

    There is a 1906 Reliable Dayton here in town and a 1908 Surrey in Tennesee.
     

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  20. Vintageride
    Joined: Jul 15, 2009
    Posts: 204

    Vintageride
    Member

    I found another car to add.

    Runs on coal oil.

    DELLING.

    "DELLING MOTORS COMPANY"

    Is it "E H Delling"?

    It says he has Mercer and Stanley on his resume. We know both Marques have had important speed records.

    But, can anyone find a Delling today?

    Thank Mr. Tryniski of fultonhistory.com.

    This comes from an advert in the Schenectady Paper (Schenectady Gazette February 25, 1925).

    Vintageride
     

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  21. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    --------------------
    Here's some more 'Delling Steam Car' pics,
    circa 1924-25 - a magazine ad of the day-
    and two photos of Delling cars - a 6-passenger
    Delling Sedan, inside and a 6-passenger
    Delling Phaeton, outside the factory.

    Mart3406
    =========================
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  22. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Some GREAT posts there, guys! It seems Vintage Ride and Mart have just posted more info on the Dellingsteamer than any of the 'net list-makers have available to them! Most don't even list Delling, in fact. The drawings and pix are keen, of course. The illustration of the power plant is surely telling -- compact, simple. But I LOVE the spare copy in the two ads! They address every concern people had about steam power in the day. Everything except PRICE, and those Dellings don't look to be cheap cars. Could that be why few sold and why, presumably, they are EXTINCT? (Rhetorical question there, I suppose! LOL)

    It's also interesting that the Delling was conceived and produced toward the tail end of the so-called Steam Renaissance, and about a whole decade after Francis and Frelan had retired from the business. Unless the ads lie, it seems the Delling engine design was of their own, new design, too. 14 mpg on the coal oil may not seem spectacular to some today, but these look like heavy, sturdy cars, and with a 22-gallon tank that would give the Delling the ability to do a round trip of more than 300 miles -- probably needed water several times before a refueling, since I didn't notice mention of re-circulation. Incidentally, one source said the New Jersey-based company was technically in business from 1924 through 1927.

    If we can take the ad copy to heart here, it sounds as though the demise of Delling was almost as much a loss to us all as was the Doble!

    You guys have stimulated me to dig up a little item I'd done on ANOTHER little-known steam from about the same era, the Coats of Sandusky, Ohio. I'd wanted to polish it up some more, but I think it would fit the thread trend here! Thanks!
     
  23. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,126

    chrisp
    Member

    Here's a not extinct but rare one, the 1936 Panhard X76 Dynamic coupe Major. The coupe Major (3 window) was produced between october 1936 and january 1937 before being replaced by the coach Major (5 window).
    6 cylinder valve sleeve 2516cc engine, 280cm wheelbase for a price of 58 850 Francs to compare a Citroen Traction Avant was 20 000 Francs and a Ford 25 000...
    The car in the picture is the only known survivor of the coupe Major.
    [​IMG]
    One of the main particularity of those cars was that the driver was sitting in the middle of the front bench, the steering wheel was dead center...
     
  24. LN7 NUT
    Joined: Sep 9, 2010
    Posts: 2,165

    LN7 NUT
    Member

    There is also the Brooks Steamer built in Brooks Alberta, a very cool car as well!
     
  25. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The Coats steam car, 1921-1923, seems to have had a lot going for it. Just as apparently, the company could not clear manufacturing and business hurdles in time to carve out solid market and survive. It is thought that no more than two dozen Coats Steamers ever got built -- possibly many less.

    Designed by George Coats, these were first built in Columbus, Ohio, then operations moved to Sandusky (one source says Bowling Green), Ohio. Planned to sell at a tad over a thousand dollars, the three-cylinder cars were neither cheap nor in the true luxury class and were offered only with touring bodywork. Anyway, folks, presumed EXTINCT, unless somebody comes up with evidence to show otherwise!

    In retrospect, it seems a shame that Coats didn't have a better shot at success. Like the vaunted (but far more costly) Doble, the respectable Coats required only one minute to achieve full boiler pressure, used readily available kerosene and could range 300 miles before requiring water. The floor-shifted transmission (with novel inner-workings) had two forward gears and one reverse.

    I also ran onto one reference that stated that Coats evolved into a California-built make named Endurance which apparently lasted one year (ill-named, what?). The same source indicated that as few as TWO of those steamers were built. So, one can at least venture a GUESS as to their survival status today, eh? EXTINCT!


    [​IMG]
    1923 Coats steam car with George Coats pictured here. Public domain
    but with THANKS to Wikipedia and the WikiMedia Commons project!
     
  26. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    UPDATE
    [​IMG]

    One of only three 1921 Heine Velox sedans built, this car is thought possibly to be the one once served as a chicken coop in someone's back yard, before it was rescued from oblivion. Fantom Works in Norfolk, VA, began what they expected to be a two-year restoration project in late 2009. They invite folks to see more pix of the car AS FOUND (rough) and to follow progress on the continuing resto job. Just search http://www.fantomworks.com/fw/future...e-velox-sedan/. :)

    If I recall correctly, there's the sporting Victoria at the Fountainhead in Fairbanks, AK, an H-V limousine in Shanghai, and then THIS sedan, currently under restoration. Heine-Velox is thought to be the most expensive U.S. car of the early 20th Century, barring perhaps a few coachbuilt monsters done for the ultra-rich and foreign potentates. It's on the list of the ULTRA-RARE!
     
  27. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Okay, I ran across a better photo and some better facts RE the Herschell-Spillman automobile of North Tonawanda, NY. To correct the record, the first H-S auto was completed in 1901, much earlier than previously discussed here and what's on various 'net lists. The FINAL OF THE ONLY FOUR H-S CARS, in fact a prototype, was finished in 1907. None survive, so the make, such as it was, is EXTINCT.

    Herschell-Spillman stopped building H-S engines after 1923, though their amusement-park rides and equipment continued into the 1960s, pursuant to various reorganizations, etc. But in their time, proprietary H-S fours, sixes and V-8s powered a plethora of assembled autos and trucks, in addition to farm and marine applications.

    [​IMG]
    Info is conflicting on this H-S auto. It's either an '04 or an '05, though.
    Seems to be conventional in the obvious respects, open car, chain
    drive and a very STRAIGHT axle (wood?).
     
  28. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The earlier of TWO unrelated Dragon marques, the Dragon, Detroit, was only built from 1906 to '08. Though well planned -- with a sound four of about 25 hp and shaft drive -- the Dragon's performance suffered due to quality issues after several officers left early on. After a factory shift to Philadelphia, coupled with a sales chill cause by the Panic of 1908, complaints of unpaid bills mounted, and Dragon breathed its last. Only one has turned up, to date, on this thread, and it seems to reside in the Boyertown, PA, auto museum.
    It seems as though even less is known about the SECOND, unrelated, Dragon built in Chicago, only in 1921. Unless someone has evidence of SURVIVAL, let's call the '21 DRAGON EXTINCT!


    [​IMG]

    1907 Dragon, as illustrated in the January 16, 1907, New York Sun. THANKS to the WikiMedia
    Commons project!

    [​IMG]

    1907 Dragon advertisement, THANKS to American-Automobiles.

    [​IMG]

    A reprise of what may be THE ONLY early Dragon,
    at the Boyertown museum.
     
  29. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps Ransom E. Olds' first car, 1887, thanks to Royal
    Feltner's site. I have no info beyond that, except the photo
    was marked experimental. No idea of propulsion, though
    Olds played with steam and electricity early on, as I've
    heard. I consider him, along with Charles Brady King, to
    be true, largely under-rated GIANTS in the birth of the
    American automobile.
     
  30. MrFire
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,801

    MrFire
    Member
    from Gold Coast

    Mart,

    The French may have tried a straight-12, but, the Italians (Bugatti) built a straight-16.

    It's taken me a while to find a photo and it is copyrighted. I'll put up the link so anyone can, at least, click and have a look at it:
    http://atspeedimages.com/search.php?s=bugatti&start=200&length=100

    ............................

    and then I found this on the VOISIN V16 -

    [​IMG]

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacksnell707/sets/72157623722045456/

    Chech the link and there are photos of the "mock up" engine in a show chassis.
     

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