I've done a lot of reading on the subject of parallel vs. triangulated and have decided that I want to go with a triangulated four link on my 49 merc. The question I have is, has anyone been able to set up a triangulated four link in a 49 merc without getting in the way of the back seat? And if so does anyone have pictures of this setup on a 49-51 merc?
if you do a set up like smokinflathead you would have some room, his set up looks low mounted. you want to have a certain amount of degree, in your upper bars around 30 or so to hold the rear centered. a triagulated 2-link or a parallel 4 would give you less interference issues minus the driveshaft tunnel unless you point the yoke at the ground. make sure you compensate for your tire height also. matt
Here's how I put one under a 46 ford. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317513&highlight=triangulated
To answer your question yes it can be done. Sorry I got no pics but the easiest way is to put the angeled bars on the bottom instead of the top. I have been doing this stuff for 20 years and i personally would go with a 2 link if you want to keep as much of the rear seat pan area stock. Also if you go with a 8" ford rear end with a rear tire around 28" tall you will only have to C notch your frame and leave your trunk pan stock also. I know some will say 2 links will not articulate much but look close at this pic. There is a 4x4 under one frame rail with the other on the ground.
You also have to take into consideration,how low the car will be. Obviously,the lower the car,the more problems you will encounter. Like the floor under the rear seat,and the driveshaft tunnel.
Yes, but beware. I got mine from fatman's fab. and my alignment guy had to shim the upper control arms due to the uprights not being consistant......According to the manual there should only be a 2 degree difference through the suspension cycle......
I know that Clark on the HAMB uses a 2 link with bags on his builds many times . He uses " I " beams and makes his own up. Super nice looking and very strong too ! Clark tells me that the price isn't bad either . I think I am going to see how much Clark will make a set up for my Shoebox gasser I want to build . Clark's welding is a hell of a lot better than mine is too ! Retro Jim
here's some photo's of what we've done, although I'd promote the chev 2 link, gives you the best of everything within the space available. you will note the slight floor mods for the upper bars, and the splice we put in for the driveshaft, this is with the 8" ford rear. We can go as low as 2" with this arrangement, obviously would need to trim more if you wanted more, however we'd have then also needed to modify the sheetmetal around our rear wheels to clear the ones we ended up using, so we comprimised and happy with the end result. Note: this is with a Jag Series 2 frontend spliced in at front. Cheers, Drewfus
Drewfus, thanks for the pics. The reason I want to go with a triangulated four link vs. parallel or 2 link is to avoid the use of a panhard bar. I installed a parallel on my cousins Ford years ago and was disappointed with the movement of the axle from side to side caused by the panhard. BlackjackMerc
yes how low what size tires always your bigest encounter is thje drive line tunel if you do a trianglated put the front bars in front of the axel and the bottom bar to the bottom edge of the frame the bigest thing with ALL these diderant set ups is pinion angle change a trianglated when write will have almost no change im pimion because your always going to have to do a drive line tunnel i feel that puting the top bar of the trianglated on top in the frame rail is the least of your worries we offer a tail dragger set up for your car trianglated 4 bar notch over the axel brackets and bags the notch is NOT a uni truck notch its made for your car call us gambino kustoms 408 561 5744 check out all these links thee mostly chevys and one shoe baox but there basicly done with the same aproch Tue, April 5, 2011 3:57:24 PM<nobr style="width: 858px;" id="1_messageHeaderSubject_text" class="cgSelectable msgSubjText">tail dragger instals</nobr> <style type="text/css">div { margin: 0px; }</style>here ya go http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152076 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394429 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=293280 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202220 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194332 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194332 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305649 this one is a ford http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394891 thanxs alex
If you make your pan hard bar as long as possible and make it parallel to the rear end at 1/2 lift you will have no more than 1/4" of total side to side movement. Most triangulated four link set up will have more of real world side to side movement due to flex caused by the angled bars are commonly installed at not enough of an angle to hold the rear end solid.
Finally got to work on the Merc due to spring break! I notched the frame and flipped the uprights, but haven't heated them and bent them yet. I know flipping the uprights is frowned upon, but I am still deciding which way to go with the front. Thinking about the control arms with granada spindles, but I don't know if those will allow me to lay frame....Still waiting on my tri-four link in the mail...
you might need to beef up your C notch that looks a little thin for the radius you have. my wifes merc i flipped the uprights and rebent everything to get the geometry correct....ill never do it again, what a pain..i had time and no money and the torches were full!!
Thanks for the input slddnmatt. I was hoping you would reply. I am beefing up the notch and will probably go a little overboard. Next time I'll just go with one of those kits for the notch...I just happened to have some extra steel that had a perfect shape...As far as the upright flip I am probably going to go with lowered uprigths from jamco or the control arms....Going to call the local junkyard tomorrow for prices and availability on Granada or Maverick spindles with disc brakes. BlackjackMerc
I've done a lot of searches on pinion angle. I am using the original engine, trans and rearend. Does anyone happen to know the angles the transmission and rearend should be at on a stock merc? The engine and trans are 3 hours away from here and I'm picking them up in two weeks. BlackjackMerc
Subscribed to this thread. I'm strongly considering this as part of my long term plan for my '51 Merc.
I finally got some progress on the 49. I still need to adjust some things. When the bags are fully deflated they don't compress straight up and down, but at ride height they are straight. Is this ok or should I have them straight up and down when are fully deflated rather than parallel at ride height? I'm posting some pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. Thanks in advance for the help! BlackjackMerc
Here are couple of pix from my 51 Merc chassis built by Slddnmatt. Triangulated four link with a 9" small bearing Ford rear. Using 29" tall Diamonback radial tires. My engine is a SBF 347ci stroker and an AOD trans w custom torque converter (2500 stall).
The problem I am having is the axle is being brought forward when the bags are deflated. I think this has to do with the links not being at zero degrees at ride height. Because I was trying to set them low, they are currently at 5 degrees down. Another problem could be that the upper triangulated bars are too short. The upper bars are currently 2/3 the length of the lowers, but from my research they should be 3/4 the length of the lowers. I saw examples that were similar to mine, but they were fixed suspensions not adjustable. Drewfus's setup is similar to mine, but he is usings sleeves. I was thinking about redoing it with the links at zero at ride height, but am afraid the shorter upper links will continue to pull the axle forward when deflating the bags. I will admit that I am somewhat lost this time.
(Not my image,image borrowed from this thread)I'm having a similar problem. As my body comes down it drags the axle housing forward in the notch and twists the bag . Regards Dave.
Hi Dave (& B/JackMerc if you're out there), there's two key things I want to point out in response to this topic, first and foremost, at ride height, you need the bag to be 'vertical'(or technically with the upper and lower mounts being directly perpendicular to the bag centreline axis), reason being that this is where they will be spending the core bulk of their time in service. Secondly, at ride height, you should have the lower bar slightly pointing up at the leading pivot point, whereas the example shown has the bar facing down at ride height, which, if you do any reading up into a vehicles 'instant centre', and suspension dynamics, will highlight some notable concerns, and in regards to the bag issue you mentioned, because it's already facing down, as there is suspension travel under compression (or bag is deflated), its natural arc is effectively pulling the diff forward the more compression there is, which is not a good result, either for the effectiveness and service life of the bag, and similarly the vehicle handling. If you compare the lower bar's pivot point on the diff, between your setup, and the merc in my post, I believe you will find that it will be positioned effectively lower on my fitment (although still above the scrub line of the rim), which will assist the geometry issue I'm referring to, being that at ride height the bar is slightly facing upwards towards the centre of the rear of the engine. Dave, can you take a side shot of your setup (at ride height) and confirm if my perspective is correct? When setting up ones suspension, you really need to focus on where the links and components are positioned when at ride height and in service, otherwise you will find yourself frustrated at how the car rides and performs, as whilst it may look 'ace' laying rail, if it doesn't work you'll be leaving it parked. Cheers, Drewfus P.S. don't forget to add an external bumpstop (ie don't rely on just the bags' internal unit), to assist with protecting your suspension components when they are layed out, otherwise you run the risk of potentially damaging your bags, and cracking/bending your diff housing.
The Jalopy Journal
