So I am stripping all the old paint and surface rust off my Shoebox and I am finding patches of pitted metal under all that junk. What is the best way to deal with this? I have been grinding out tons of body filler and don't want to the rust bubbling back later on. Any suggestions?
Yeah, media blast would be best, but if that's not possible, use something like "the Must for Rust" to at least neutralize it down in the pits. Then do your body work. A high-fill primer will get most pitting, or a skim coat for real deep stuff. Don't grind too much or you'll run out of metal and heat up the surface a lot. Better to simply neutralize it by whatever means, and move on with body work.
I have been using those silicon carbide stripping discs trying to avoid removing too much metal. What is hard to tell is if there is build up around the pits or if the pits are into the metal. It was suggested by a local old-timer that they could be filled with lead or lead-free body solder, is that an option?
Remove it or neutralize it. Chemical removal is more complete (Ospho) but a rust converter will stop it. I've found blasting to be less than 100% on deep pitting-it may look clean right after blasting but in a few days it starts to show again. Any filler, be it plastic or lead, over existing rust just delays the inevitable.
Agree with this ^^^ Rust will never stop until it's neutralized unless you live on a planet where there is not "rust food" for the steel. Neutralize or convert it, seal it, be done with it. Lead/non-lead body solder still has to be on a completely rust-free surface or you will have problems. I've found good success with "the Must For Rust" by, Krud Kutter and it's available at Home Depot, Ace, and some other places.
Once you have got rid of the rust epoxy prime it, epoxy is corrosion resistant and great stuff, They use it on oil rigs to resist corrosion.
Give it a quick blocking with some 36 grit. That will tell you if its high or low. ospho is some pretty neat stuff. You also could, if its low, put some por15 on those pitted areas.use the entire system not just the paint! Scratch up the por15 really well before you put body work on it Cut it out and put some uncompromised metal in is the only way to narus sure those pits are gone.
lead is nothing more than body filler. simply covering this with filler does not stop the problem. i love "the must for rust" but it wont stick to a vertical surface. for that i use naval jelly in a spray form. bondo has a brand of it, its simply diluted naval jelly in a squirt bottle. coat it, let it sit 20 minutes to neutralize the rust, wash it off with water and then use your choice of body filler
Yes, but you would still have to neutralize the rust first. To lead it, the area must be tinned first. It would still be necessary to either media blast it or chemically neutralize the rust in the pits. Then repair using your preferred body method.
I love the Napa brand rust remover. It is in gel form and after 2-3 applications it will remove the rust and also leaves a protective coating for a short time. I would not grind or sandblast it. All that does is remove more precious metal and it appears you don't have much afford to lose in that area.
Guys this may have been done to death, but here's what I found by my own experimentation............. No chemical/acid treatments for me, firstly. So, with that in mind, I went to the hardware store, and grabbed a few types of abrasive discs. I have a '37 Dodge 4 door sedan, the patina/rust on the roof is damn hard to remove. So, I have tried super coarse sanding discs; which do the job, but "dull off" well before the disc is dead. So I tried the poly discs, one made by 3M attaches to the drill, and some cheaper poly discs that go on the 4" angle grinder. Test piece was the grille shell. The Poly disc got me through half of the shell before it was used up. A good result, and the steel is bright with no "carving up" type of damage a sanding disc would do to the steel. So I try the 3M job on the other half. Well, what a disappointment! 3 x times the cost, 1/3 as effective, 3 x times the effort to remove all the crap. Let's just say, this will be my first, and last 3M abrasive purchase. So, back to the hardware store for some more blue poly discs. I know the rust on the roof is hard to remove, so it is removed by degrees. First, I had to use the poly discs, get the rust off, the steel turned black, there were still lots of small "pock marks" in the steel. Followed up by sanding discs, 36 grit then 60 grit, then hit it with a fresh blue poly disc, I have silver steel to look at on the roof. I know, a lot of stuffing around; but no acid/chemicals used. I must be too worried about chemicals coming out of the woodwork after spending hard earned on a nice finish.
strip with 3m clean `n strip black fiber wheel, not as agressive as the purple, nuetral any leftover redidule rust, EPOXY prime, I striped and primed my wheels 6 yrs ago and they look just as good as day one...
The epoxies and similar coatings used for oil field equipment are super stuff, but not easily attainable by the average Jo Blo for working on a automotive project. Corrosion resistant means it resists corrosion, it does not stop corrosion, and depending on the resins and solids that make up the coating, each product will differ in how long and how well it will protect. Also most automotive work will require several steps and different coatings or products to make a complete protective coating film. I have some access to oil field type coatings and I haven't chosen to use them for automotive refinish. Some of those products are rated at 100% solids and need to be applied from 40 to 100+ mils (20 mils is around the thickness of a dime). A quality automotive finish from the metal to topcoat will be around 8 to 15 mils (sometimes even more). Most automotive finishes are similarly applied, since the 1920's, in these basic steps. 1) Raw steel is usually phosphated, which is close to what the average person can do with a 2 part metal conditioner (phosphoric acid) followed by the conversion coating. The phosphate coating shows up as a goldish tone on cars from the 1920's probably into the 1950's or 1960's, and a grayish tone after that. It is a crucial layer in rust/corrosion protection, and when you remove factory paint and primer with abrasives by blasting or grinding, you will remove this layer of protection. I don't know of any primers, epoxy or others that can provide the same protection as the factory phosphate coating on the bare steel. 2) This is fillowed by a primer. Early on it was enamel or lacquer-brushed or sprayed on, later, around the 1970's, it was "E-coat" or a primer that was applied by electro deposition, the part/steel was charged with a negative charge and the primer/coating was charged with a positive charge. Electro deposition or electrostatic application makes the coating bond "tighter" with the surface of the metal as the magnetic or electric charge pulls the 2 together. This type of system is usually not available to the average person. 3)Following the E-coat or primer there may or may not be another primer for filling imperfections (sanding) or a sealer applied before the topcoat or color coat is applied. 4) Color/paint is the next step, from brushed on shellac based coatings in the early teens or 1920's, through enamel and lacquer coatings, and up to the high tech base coat/clear coat finishes we have today. All these steps make up the complete film that protects the metal. Together they must also have enough film thickness to slow down the effects of weather, chemicals, moisture, and ultra violet rays. For the first timer, it is going to require lots of research, practise, and asking experienced professionals for information. Cleaning and prepping an old car body for a refinish just boils down to a lot of work. It is a great learning experience, and with the internet, a lot of great information is at your fingertips. Chose your products from good information you can gather from technical data and experienced people. Find a reliable system and learn how to perform the steps properly to prep and apply the products for that system. Technical data sheets or product information sheets will tell you what is reccommended to prepare the surface for that product. They will not teach or tell you how to do the actual work. This is a good place to start. "Search" and read lots, then try sort out the good from the bad info. Pick a course that will accomplish your goals and meet your available time and budget. overspray
i sanded my car down to bare metal, but has some stubborn dark pitted rust areas. (sandblasting is not an option)(no money). can i spray something like Eastwoods rust converter on those dark rusted areas then do my filler work then epoxy primer? Thanks. Big Ted.
I sandblasted my '46 Olds body and then ran over it with a flap disc to remove everything I could leaving a few minor blemishes. Next body was deoxidised before 2 pak epoxy was applied, it purported seals everything ready for highfill and bodywork. Body has been sitting for 5ys now with no issues.
can Rage body fillers be applied over these rust neutralizers? The Evercoat tech sheets don't say anything about it.
i just read Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator product sheet. It says it can be used under or over body fillers. That's cool.
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