break in oil, ive read until my eyes have bleed

why would you use 20-50 for break in?there is e reason{ALL} of the cam co.tell you to use 30w oil and cam break in lube!!!!!!!i have seen several motors chew up cam-lifters in minutes without doing this.if you take pride in your engine and dont want to rebuild it just do it right.i am one of the cheapest people out there,but when it comes to useing the right oil it doesnt matter how much it costs because its WAY cheaper than a rebuild!!!either order comp cams break-in oil,or brad-penn.i use brad-penn.yes it ****s only running it for 20 minutes and changeing it but its cheeper than rebuiilding it.

 

if you want to use your zr1 oil after the break-in thats fine,as long as you use zddp add.in it.i have three bottels of it in my motorhome just in case i have a problem and have to do acouple of oil changes at the track.if you dont have a local place that sell brad-penn you can always go to a local swap-meet,and there is usually someone selling it.

 

well I asked if I should use break in or oil with zinc in it. And I got mixed answers.

I also just read that brand penn does not have a high zinc content anymore. As of december a guy ran a virgin oil sample and it came back with 650 for zinc.

Ill order some lucas break in oil and use zddp with it, I need to order some stuff from summit. All that ive been asking is there anything off the shelf I can use.

 

You should avoid using oil that is too heavy all the time. #1 it is a power vampire and #2 as a rule it doesn't oil as well unless your tolerances are loose enough to let it go by.

I always change my oil very soon after cam break in. The break in lube for cam shafts has grit in it much like ( but not exactly like) valve lapping compound. The idea is that it will wear your lifters initially to fit the cam lobe properly and it will burnish the cam lobes. Once those tow things are done you shouldn't have to worry about flattening a lobe on a street cam. Literally everyone that I know that has sense enough to pour piss out of a boot says that same thing. "if you make it through cam break in you are good to go."

 

I've used Brad Penn break in oil with great success. For oil to run after break-in, look into Valvoline VV-850. Says not street legal on the bottle (has the good stuff in it). NAPA can get it along with most major suppliers. I do break the cam in with stock valve springs because my springs are 350 pounds pressure over the nose on a hydraulic cam.

 

Actually the bearing clearances will dictate the oil weight not the cam manufacturer.

 

Nothing off the shelf for break-in.

Anything off the shelf with ZDDP added if necessary afterwards.

Why are you so hung up on 'off the shelf?'

 

You don't seem to be getting it or listening, Any brand of oil, 10-30, 10-40, or straight 30, will work as long as you add a bottle of EOS, or zinc supplement. Bran Penn works right out of the bottle but adding zinc greatly improves your odds of a good break in. No diesel oil has the zinc levels they once did, and most if not all racing oils (not meant for street use) have the required levels of zinc. 20w50 is not recommended for any break-in, its to thick. You want oil to flow and splash quickly. All 20w50 will do is eat away the oil pump drive gears and eat up horsepower.

Brad Penn is the most recommended oil from the cam manufacturers, you can buy it on line and have it shipped to your front door.

You never said what valve springs you are running, if they are factory rated, then after break-in, any oil will work with out a additive. It won't hurt to add some for piece of mind, but not really needed. For heavy spring pressures, zinc is a must for the life of the motor, and if its a extreme, fast ramp cam, you better add extra!

Joe

 

At the risk of just confusing this issue some more I will give my opinion.I know people who have a lot of problem with cam break-in,I know some people who don't.
If you put together a sloppy engine( as far as clearances),run the preoiler for hrs. and wash the cam lube off,grind on the starter for eternity because you can't figure out how to set the timing or valves,and make sure it overheats quickly because you have air under the thermostat, you will probably have problems.
I have never had a flat camshaft,but I make sure everything is right before I hit the starter.
In my opinion all the additives in the world won't help if the work is sloppy.
The best way to insure not flattening a cam is the light spring method. It is more work but it is very forgiving. Now don't put a light spring in and start it and zing the throttle a couple of times or you will bend the valves big time.I have a 3310 carb that I use strickly to start a new engine. I know where the idle ,mixture and floats are set , I fill the bowls thru the bowl vents so it instantly has fuel so that part of the equation is taken care of.The timing and valves need to be set spot -on,hole in the thermostat to get the air out,a fan for the radiator if needed,someone to monitor the gauges,a fire extingeser ready.
Or you can throw it together with all kinds of special oil and additives and get mad because you have trouble. Just my opinion ,I could be wrong.
As an afterthought, I believe that the biggest reason for cams going flat is some lifters not rotating in the lifter bores correctly, if that is the case no amount of additives will help.

 

To address the "test" by "a guy" of Brad Penn that came up "650"- read "the rest of the story" http://www.bradpennracing.com/Zinc.aspx in particular, this part "*In some cases we feel our PCMO SAE 20W-50 was sent in for ****ysis (and not the High Performance Oil SAE 20W-50) which does contain lower Zinc and Phosphorous additive concentration levels."

One can also find a lot of good info to educate one's self on "modern" lubrication on sites like Brad Penn's, Mobil1's, Valvoline, etc. Not keeping up with the times can be hazardous to your engines- believe it or don't
And make sure it's ready to run when you go to fire it, timing as close as possible, "known good" carb full of fuel etc. so it lights right away and get the speed up, outer springs only on a big cam, cooling right, all that stuff

 

Again I have learned something, I didn't know there was that much science in oil. I have built a lot of engines and never used "break in oil". I have only had one cam failure and thought zinc was a vitamin.
Had the same thing happen over what kind of water to put in a radiator!

 

Exactly. I can't even count the times that I have seen someone wash the cylinders down and then call me or someone like me to get it going.

I don't know that I am a big B.P. fan I haven't used that oil, I have a tendency to do what I know works for me. If you find something that works for you stick with it. There is actualy a time to be brand consious, that is when you find something that works for you.

 

Porkster, it ain't about brand conscious- it's about modern conscious- most oil just isn't made the same nowadays, thanks to Big Brother and his extended catalytic converter standards that required the oil companies to pull a lot of the ZDDP out of "shelf" oil. The same 'ol way just isn't the same 'ol way, and it ain't coming back, and ignoring it ain't gonna change it either

 

I was stuck on off the shelf because I didn't want to order oil. But I ordered some lucas break in oil in 30w.

I'm going to use vr1 and zddp for a little while after break in.

 

VR-1 already has the proper amount of ZDDP in it, no need to add any more for general use. And there's no "little while"- the problem doesn't magically go a way after a while- if your engine has flat tappets, it needs the proper amount of ZDDP to protect it
The special break-in oils from Lucas, Gibbs, Brad Penn etc. have additional amounts of ZDDP, recommended for break-in only

 

What I ment was ill use the vr1 and then if I can find anything better to use ill switch.

Thanks for all the input guys. We will see how the lucas goes, but I'm stuck waiting for it to come in the mail. Hense the is there anything off the shelf I can use.

 

Just to add a little input, when I installed the GM crate motor in my truck a few years ago, we first filled it with Chevron 10w-30 motor oil (which at the time I was reading still contained more zinc, not sure if it does now or did even then) and I also poured in a bottle of Comp Cams break-in lube. I ran this for 100 miles or so, changed the oil and have been using VR-1 10w-30 ever since. That was in 2008 and I've put about 25k miles on that motor and haven't had the first problem.

Like I said, just my experience and that was on a brand new motor. Around here I just order VR-1 by the case at the local Napa and it gets here pretty quick.

 

They carry this "on the shelf" at my local Advance Auto Parts store.
Most other auto parts stores carry lucas products too

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=82&catid=9&loc=show

I trust Lucas products and broke in one SBC on it already this year with no problems. I have another one I'll be breaking in on it in a couple weeks. I use a full bottle for initial break in and then use a half bottle every oil change after that. It says "not designed for p***enger car use". But I over look that because it has the same additives that are required, and likely they put that disclaimer on there as a "for off-road use only" type of thing to keep the EPA off their back.

The fella next door uses it as ***embly oil for his antique tractors and swears by it also.

 

Zinc will burn out the catalytic converter in a p***enger car.

 

For what it's worth I used an "off the shelf" SAE 30 non-detergent and zinc additive and had a great break in. I tore apart the filter after break in and it was clean as a whistle.

 

Zinc will not burn out the converter, its my understanding it plugs them up. The new cars use a much finer comb in the converters to get the most use out of a small package.

Sounds like you have it figured out. The last few post about being ready to start when you hit the key is no joke, the first few seconds decide if a cam lives or dies!

Joe

 

Yea I plan on having everything spot on what I start up. Ill know in the next week how it goes.

 

Wonder if any of these geniuses have checked the last two formulations on GM EOS? hasnt had any zinc in it for better than 5 years. This has been beaten to death on here more times than I can count, I covered the whole EOS thing on here not even a month ago, sure as hell not gonna do it again. Usual HAMB, hot and cold running ********.

 

Nice. And well applied.

 

Wow, way to be a **** about it.

Sorry, some of us didn't know about it but now we do.

I didn't realise that all of your posts had become required reading.

 

im glad you decided to wait!!!im no expert on engins,thats why i follow the cam manufacture recommendations.this has been talked about for years.the last cam i bought{3 years ago}was from comp-cams and there was a big yellow ALERT page in the box explaining the problems with the "new"oils.it clearly states that zddp type oils HAVE to be used every time you change your oil.this is also needed for older engins as well.as i have said earlier im cheep but not with my car.i change the oil two to three times a year{i race it only}.i save the oil and put it in my older cars.i wish i had the money to go with a roller cam but i cant justify spending $1000 for a little more power.

 

Thanks for that. I have since read up on 'Catalyst poisoning.'

I know someone that should use a finer comb to get the most use out of his small package! HaHa

 

I imagine it's a bit frustrating to have people keep starting an endless number of threads on this subject, perhaps lack of noticing the "search" function. Anything marked SM has no zinc. Joe Gibbs is running an ad saying new SN oil is coming out & it's no better than SM. Supposedly CJ diesel oil has zinc, but I saw a gallon jug marked SM/CJ, that would seem to be incompatable with each other. Accel brand makes SF rated 10W-40 oil available through NAPA & soon trhough Amazon. Used to be available @ Wal-Mart. Marked"for pre'88 cars".

 

This should cover it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=13576488

 

Thank you. The biggest problem with people educating themselves on this is the folks who are set in their ways and won't, and want to give "advice". Every time this comes up, no matter if it's a car forum, antique motorcycle, antique tractor, whatever, there's always a bunch with the old "I've always done it this way, and it works fine and always will" or the "It's a conspiracy to get you to buy stuff" or my personal favorite "My dads' buddy says to do this because he used to build engines for 30 years and should know". Not much we all "knew" about shelf oils 20 years ago is valid today, and that's the reality- believe it or not, like it or not, bruises your ego or not (which it shouldn't- keeping up on new technologies is the smart thing to do, nothing to be ashamed of). Our flat-tappet engines are now in need of "specialty" or "off-road" oils, not regular shelf oil, thanks to Big Brother protecting us from ourselves
Actually this forum is far from the worst for this, you should hear some of the old farmers on the antique tractor sites get mad and raise hell about conspiracies and such, the owners' manual says 30wt non-detergent and its all I've used in my Farmall for 50 yrs etc. Ever pull apart an old engine that was run for a long time on non-detergent oil? Sometimes it's hard to find the rocker arms- or the oil drainback holes