Hey everyone, I am setting the panels on my 30/31 roadster and need some guidance as to where the cowl sits. I've got it roughed in (see pictures) but there is a 2 hole bracket that seems to line up fairly close, and has the same pattern as the body block. If I used this bracket however (both holes), my front bolt on the subrail extensions won't line up, and my subrail cross bar mounting holes become out of alignment by 2 inches. Right now I'm using the front hole from the bracket, and the hole with the bolt through it in the photo, and the subrail cross channels line up nicely. Which holes do I use to mount the cowl?
The out side frame bracket mount up with the block and body (two holes). Get that on there first, if the front cowl brackets don't line up unbolt the cowl body bracket(s) and heat and bend if needed. My drivers side is way out but I can see the bend in it. hope this helped
Mine will line up without to much bending, but the problem is that the front bolt (on the left side of the picture) will be about 2" away from the hole it is currently in. Do I have that bolt in the wrong hole? And for the subrail cross channels, now they would also be out 2"...
I think I'll run out to the coupe to have a look but my body is off the frame. from your pics the body has to go back use the wood and two holed bracket on the frame and go from there. If you don't have that in place the hole body will not look right on the frame, and if that's off everything else will be off, fenders ect...
Cool that would be awesome thanks. Where would that front hole in the subrail extension be used then? and whats the deal with those cross channels now? lol cars..
Ok from body mount bracket to the front of cowl mount from center front hole to center cowl mount hole is 8 3/4'' on the frame I'm bad at adding pics can't size it right.... First the body mount holes. And the front with the cowl mounts Note how you can unbolt them
I had this same issue with my '31 tudor sedan, the rear hole in the subrail would line up with the front hole on the frame bracket and the front hole on the subrail would only line up with the hole in the frame apron. I posted this question on the fordbarn and the answer I got was that Ford changed the location of the frame bracket in early '31 to accomadate the heavier 4 dr bodys and did not feel it would be a problem with the lighter bodies. I have a TCI frame and had to install the frame brackets to my frame, so I located the body so the cross subrail holes lined up with mounting holes in the frame and located the frame bracket so both of the subrail holes lined up with both holes in the bracket. Hope this makes sense and helps.
Thanks for the replies and pictures! So the frame could be an older '31 frame with a re-located bracket for the sedan bodys.. Ok, so then I can just use the front hole (with the wood body blocks) on the bracket, and then utilize the hole in the front of the subrail like I already am doing in the below picture? I'm only using this frame as a jig to build the car on, then switching over to a tube chassis that I've put together but I wanted to get it all in line correctly first.
Wow that really is different on that '31 frame, from my '30 coupe and frame. I don't know what to go by now... Do you have the rest of the body? If you line it up from the rear axle on the wood mounts in the back where would the front sit?
Unfortunately, the person that had the car before me wanted to do some fancy frame work (hack) and cut out 15" where a rear kickup would be, or where the axle hump on a 32 frame would have gone through, so for me there is no rear body mount until I weld in a patch panel. The way that everything is coming together right now it looks like I do have that updated frame for the sedans because the rest of the car lines up correctly when I only use 1 bracket hole, and the front subrail hole rather then no front subrail hole and both bracket holes. I'll take some pictures today for everyone. Thanks
Here are some pictures of the offset bracket mount. As you can see, the screws come down through the 2 holes in the subrail extension foot. One screw sits through the front-most hole in the frame bracket, and the other screw sits away from the bracket entirely. The front-most hole in the subrail extension (practically under the firewall) mates up perfectly with a hole in the frame, which also happens to be a mounting hole for the fender. Using this setup, all of my cross channels line up correctly, with their proper mounting holes for body blocks.
I am not sure that you have a model 'a' cowl, i don't have a roadster cowl and that might be the difference but the 'a' cowl have a seperate 'a' pillar that the door hangs from (at least the sedans) and i thought all 'a' cowls had the gas tank in the cowl. Again, that might be the difference between the roadster and sedan.
It depends on body style. I have similar mismatch on my 30/31 Coupe. My 31 Roadster and 30 Cabriolet matched the bracket. I noticed that Speedway catalog shows their frame has three hole side bracket to take all body stryles with two bolts.
Before you think about installing the cowl panels buy a pair of the inner cowl bottom patch panels Snyders part number is A-014-X cost is $18.50 plus postage. Well made item, I've got them for my '30.
WOW! How did that photo get so large? Anyway you need the replace that rotted away piece so there is something for the outer panel to attach to on the bottom.
Wescott frame dimensions for Model A... The A pillar mounting bracket on the outside of the rails was relocated to accomodate some of the coach built bodies on later frames. It was moved exactly the distance between the two holes on the bracket so the earlier body styles would still fit, but only one body mount hole was used...
Chop top is correct, that seems to be what I'm running into right now with 1 hole lining up and the other not being used. OJ, The cowl is a model A cowl, built for a roadster (not a modified coupe to look as if it were a roadster) so it is dimensionally correct. And the cowl bottoms will be replaced. I'm toying with the idea of getting brand new quarters.. I have 2 coupe panels that are pretty mint (except needing minor bottom repair work) and 3 roadster panels that are in rough condition. I have new lower patch panels, but brand new quarters would be so much nicer to work with rather then cutting and chopping on all of my parts to get 2 good ones out of the deal.
I've got full new panels from Brookville that I'll be installing on my '30 cowl, I think it is the way to go.
I know this is a older post but I'm having the same problem. So from the factory they would have only used one bolt and not the two?
Apparently.. Either that or the frames are different from the factory, and although they are mostly similar and will work for both models, you may have a frame for the opposite model. Cut the bracket and move it once the body is setup and located in final position. Bolt it on through slotted holes for adjustment after paint.
Old thread but very timely for me as I start on my 31 Victoria. The Wescott frame dimension page primts out very nicely on an 8x10 sheet of paper to be able to take it out to the garage. It would be nice to be able to print it out poster size to put on the wall of the garage.
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