I'm not an expert engine builder, haven't written any books, so keep in mind I'm just a dude who likes to go fast. That term horsepower is not a measured tangible unit. It is a calculated number that you use for comparison. Torque and rpms are used to calculate HP. Torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants, torque is what smokes the tires, and torque is what gets you to the fastest 60 ft times or fastest Et. Its torque that's getting the job done. I've been trying to get as much info as I can on my blown stroker motor. Lots of opinions, lots of knowledge. Here is what one engine builder had to say about some of the stuff. "The saying you can't beat cubic inches is if you would excuse me absolute BS. A 500 inch engine at 5000 rrpm is the same as a 400 inch engine at approx 6200 and a 350 at 6500 . The amount of air going through determines the amount of fuel that can be ixed with it and thus the amount of HP that can be produced. A 1/2 lb of fuel produces one horspeower for one hour. Period. No way around it , no magic no tricks it is carved in stone. The more are you pump the more fuel you burn the more power you make. A stroker trades off RPM for torque. "
I'd go with a Caddy. Kits are out there to mount them in trucks, G-bodies, etc. Like it was said before go with an Edelbrock intake, headers with 3" dual exhaust and that engine will get you very very close to 500 hp. You can even boost the compression ratio by using 472 heads, that will definitely get you 500 hp and shred tires all day long, even with a 2.56 rear end ratio. My friend had a combo such as described above in a 68 Coupe DeVille.
Listen to the last guy. For the most part (the 1/2 lb of fuel thing is a bit of a generalization, but not far off) what he says is right.
LOL, too bad you want to stay SBC, 'cause a 472 Cad with an E-intake, cam and headers puts you right there. I'm just say'n... Brian
Attach a smallblock chevy to a skateboard ,Chain drive.Build a 406 with dished pistons and world heads ................Dual quads
The 500 caddy is relatively light for it's size and they are way over build. Also the valve train needs a little attention.
start with a newer LS series motor and add a turbo or blower and you will have realiable big power (over 500)
454, good heads and a cam, hot ignition, easy 500 hp 500 caddy, cam and an intake, 500 hp below 5000rpm and more torque than you know what to do with
Start with a 700 HP motor and pull a couple of plug wires. Seriously, did you do a Google search first? Or just read some CarCraft issues-They're always putting up a story on Junkyard HP.
http://www.nissanusa.com/gt-r/specifications.html real 500 ponies, street driven. all wheel drive and it corners so hard, jeremy clarkson broke his own neck diving it. turbochargers are wonderful, you don't have to have every little aftermarket valvetrain part made, and you can turn it down for street manners with a cheap controller.
Thanks for the input guys... Like I said earlier, this is more of a challenge than anything. I realize there are inexpensive and more practical ways to get there by using a bigger cube motor like a 460 Ford, 454 BBC, or 500 Caddy, but I just want to see if it is realistic to do on a poor man's budget. Just out of curiosity, what is better between the two Caddy motors, 472's or 500's? Which one are there more hi-po goodies for?
Here's a Y with 500+ HP on pump gas and using a vacuum secondary carb. Might not be the cheapest but still simple. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542835
15 or 20 years ago, 500HP was HUGE, today, it is not that hard to do especially with todays head, cam & intake technology. But, it may be a little over your budget.
500's are bored 472's so what's good for one is good for the other. Early (68 and 69) 472's have smaller comubstion chambers, much higher compression, so they're good for a little more out of the box, but aren't happy on regular gas. Lets say you score a runner for 1K. These are very high nickle blocks/heads, so if it's got good oil pressure and doesn't rattle, just add the E intake, and carb, a cam, lifters and timing chain, and set of headers. There ya go, spend the money you saved on gas. Brian
you are going to have to show me a stock 500 caddy making 400 hp let alone 500 .dyno sheet please. RLS
Trickflow makes a top end kit for about 2500 that will make 500 hp from a 383 SBC with a single 4 and run on pump gas. Wide power band totally streetable.
The problem today is big block stroker kits are so cheap that everyone wants one and now anyone with a built small block can't give their stuff away. The 377 in my Scout makes 530hp / 505tq and there is no way I could have built it for $3000. It has a top of the line steel crank, H beam rods and 11.5-1. Reasonably serious solid lifter cam with a used set of Brodix Trck-1 heads and roller rockers. It has a Brodix intake and Pro Systems Carb. I bought the heads used but my bills are adding up to almost $7500 with 800 of that just for machine work. I will admit the combination is far more than you need for 500hp. With a simple change to a more aggressive roller cam I would expect almost 600hp. Can you build a 500 horse sbc for $3000 - sure, if you do some horse trading and stumble across some really good deals. If you are starting fresh and buying new parts I seriously doubt you can hit the target without a power adder. The block and head prep alone would cut into your budget more that you would want. Since I built the Scout motor we picked up a fresh circle track 358 sbc with documented 500hp credentials. These guys kept coming down in price until we stepped in at $3000. This motor was never raced and only has about 10 minutes of dyno time. Still needs an ignition and carb. This was a fluke but they are out there. Some Drag racers locally have 500+ 355's, 383's and 406's for sale for $3000 - $3500 and would jump at an offer of $500 less just to make room for the big blocks. We have built a few 472's and 500 caddy combinations. The cool thing about them is with a simple intake change they wiegh no more than a sbc. If you find the better 70 / 71 model heads with small chambers you can get an honest 11.5 compression by swapping them onto the 330 horse shortblock. Things to remember about a caddy build. The engines are very wide so space considerations are critical. Aftermarket parts are becoming more plentiful but still pricy. But for a caddy freak, they are worth it. Caddy's are more about torque than hp and for the most part are often over rated regarding factory hp numbers and always underrated regarding torque. A decent 500 incher with an intake swap and decent cam will only put out 400 hp but at a wopping 500 - 550 tq. Throw on a set of ported heads or some aftermarket alloy pieces with a bigger cam and a set of headers and the hp jumps to around 500 but the torque gets darn right stupid at over 600+ lb/ft with over 500 starting at 2500 rpm or less. Caddy's don't like to rev and their normally rock solid bottom end with a cast crank and will quit on you if you try. Stay under 5800 rpm and build the combination around torque. I suggest a T-400 for the low 1st gear and strength w 3.73s out back. This combo will have you hanging on for dear life. We put a 3200 lb Malibu into the 11.90's with a basic low mileage 500 incher and nothing more than a cam, intake, msd ignition and ported exhaust manifolds. Then we would drive it home (20+ mpg on the highway) and cruised all Sunday night. I'm still considering a full boogey 505 Caddy for the Scout
Or you could build a 280 HP (as rated by GM) Z-28 302 clone and scare hell out of yourself between 4 and 8 thousand RPM.
I agree 100%, especially with the OP stating numerous times about being on a budget. If you move back from the 500hp level and reset it to 400-425hp, you CAN build a decent smallblock for a reasonable amount of money. Now, that being said, you could build an LS engine to make 500hp pretty easily and still be reliable and relatively streetable. Not going to be a cheap, budget build though. And they don't even look remotely traditional. A Caddy is cool, but it isn't going to be a budget build if you have to go completely through the long block. To make the heads work reliably, you'll have to throw some money at them if you want any kind of lifespan. The head design sucks, and Caddy's don't like RPM. Lower your horsepower expectations. Sometimes, you can't have it all and spend nothing.
X2, in spades. How many of these guys have actually built a low-buck, mild 500hp caddy, and how much of this is Car Craft Hollywood Romance BS... Rhetorical question there.
$1725 buck to ohio crankshaft and a 400 block will get you 434 cid, another grand for a good set of aluminum heads, add a 280 ish cam and 750 carb I bet your real close to your mark. Machine work, gaskets and such will add to your price though.
I have a 500 caddy. Should be rolling this weekend. I never gave them a second look in the past but after looking it over it is a well designed engine. It is WIDE though. That 500HP number looks good on paper but it all boils down on what you are going to do with it. You can run pump gas in a big caddy. The other thing is getting everything hooked to the ground. Had some hot small blocks on the street and they can be an irritation. You may only need 400Hp and wind up useing the other 100 to turn your perfectly good tires into smoke and noise.
The guys who are truly making 500+HP in a claimer motor are doing so with big compression (11.5:1 or more) and spending a lot more than $3,000 for a "Complete" motor. And they aren't street able or even really reliable for a daily driver situation. Most of those claimer motors, according to sources like Federal Mogul (who did their Big Dawgs motor) and JR Motorsports, end up costing about $5,000 for a complete motor, and the Big dawgs program makes about 485HP
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