So are we talking earth HP, or up in the air theoretical digital HP? If you want 500hp pump gas earth HP, you set up some real tight guidlines. The OP stated he would prefer, (but no limited to) a SBC... Low compression, real world streetable engine. No way no how is a typical SBC gonna make 500hp for under 3000.00 and meet these guidelines. To do this with a small block, it will take the three C's, Cam Carb and Compression. What You'll have is a high winding SB that pings on pump gas and comes alive only above 5K rpm. I wish I had a dollar for every 500 hp small block that I run across, that my 400 earth hp 347 (about 5k in it) takes down at the drag strip. The problem with a SB is head flow and compression. A big block by nature has more potential in stock style iron heads to get you the numbers you want. Plus a Big block has the size advantage for HP and Torque. You can stroke a small block, but with stock style iron heads you may raise the compression to a point of detonation issues on pump gas. The more CI from a stroker raises the compression, that also raises power, but at the cost of not being able to run pump gas. You could use a head with a large combustion chamber to lower the compression ratio, but open chambers are less efficent, and will hurt power... (seems like round and round we go on this...) Bottom line is, that a 500hp sb is doable if you know the right people, have the right parts, and have the required talent, but for 3k or less and have it streetable, and on pump gas, it's not gonna happen unless your name is john kaase or smokey yunick.
and smokey's shop just burned down. He's been dead for ten years, anyways. I built a cheap 500ish hp motor about 10 years ago, a 454 built with mostly free/cheap/scrounged parts. I had somewhere around $1200 in it. But it's a big block, so it won't work for this game.
it is interesting to hear everyone's opinions on what to use and if/how it could be done. everyone has seen the car craft articles and i have read my fair share, but sometimes i feel they are a little far fetched. i guess my interest was sparked a few months ago, when i saw a high winding sbc, ran 87 gas, runs 11.90's in a 32, engine has 30,000+ miles, and was built for a reasonable cost (engine that is). i know the results i'm after could be had for the right price, but just wanted to put a budget of $3,000 on it and see where it could gt me. after all, if i come in at 425... I could always break down and throw on the nos cheater system (150Hp) i have sitting out in the garage and be done with it. anyways... keep the ideas/thoughts coming. my goal is still to do this with a sbc, but all this caddy talk has me thinking!
Kind of a ridiculous question. Cheap, reliable, streetable, low compression, naturally aspirated engines that make 500hp don't exist. We would all have them if they did, right? You can get to 400 with a little research and effort. But unless you get lucky on craigslist (and you might) then your cheap 500hp SBC goal is not realistic, and even if you get the number, it probably won't be happy on cheap gas in traffic.
If you are already pre disposed to the idea of a SBC, this will not do much for you, and I did not see anyone mention it previously, so I will suggest it. A 351 Cleveland Ford with closed chamber heads. Cleveland headed engines have done quite well at the last several Engine Master competitions and the cores are fairly easy to come by. There are several places to see this type of combination on the net, but a professional rebuild with forged pistons, worked stock rods, crank & block. Convert the heads to adjustable valve train with a matched cam and valve train combination should get the job done on a 10.5:1 pump gas freindly setup no problem. Mike H
You need to make 1.4 hp per cubic inch on a 350 to get where you want to be. Not a really difficult task in and of itself, but doing it cheap and with low compression is. I scored a complete vortec 350 out of a 10,000 mile 98 Chevy pickup from a buddy who was a GM service tech. It had popped a freeze plug, so the owner elected to put a new motor in it (!). I got it complete from intake to pan for $150. I installed all new freeze plugs just to be safe, retained the Vortec crank and rods, installed a set of Keith Black 10.8:1 pistons I got cheap as a customer return (not easy to find stock displacement pistons over 9.5:1) through a local speed shop and used ARP bolts in the bottom end. I put a new timing set on it just to be safe. I got a set of new Edelbrock Perrormer RPM heads for $800, had them cleaned up a little, installed scorpion 1.5 rockers, comp springs and solid pushrods. I picked up a Comp XR294HR cam, traded a Torker II intake I had for a Performer RPM piece, bought a new Holley carb and dropped it in. I reused as much of the stock Vortec parts that I could, keeping in mind what my intentions were with the car, which is a streeter that sees some fairly regular hard pulls. I probably have about $2500 in this engine, and I'm guessing it's making about 425hp or so. If I had stroked it to a 383 or even a 406, I'd be closer to 500hp, but probably not hitting it, figuring on an added 30hp from the 383, 50 from the 406, and that might be optimistic. Obviously, I can't run 87 or 89 octane in it and even the 93 I'm getting from the pumps lately is getting suspect, as I had to back my initial timing off from 16* to 12* initial. I'd only expect the quality of gasoline to further decline. I've been beating the snot out of this engine for almost 4 years now and it's still going strong. It slobbers a bit with the cam and I'm probably leaving some power on the table, but it works and it was fairly cheap. What I'm getting at is if you have some connections and you do a lot of searching for swap meet bargains and stuff like that, you can probably hit 500hp on a 350 for your budget, but I doubt you're going to do it on anything under 12:1 and under 7000rpm, but I've been wrong before!!
A buddy had a "Clevor" (Cleveland heads on a Windsor block) in his 64 Fairlane that easily made 500chp n/a on pump gas. It was a low 10 second car on the hit.
I fifth the caddy 500, dirt cheap, usually low milage, not much bigger than a SBC. They run about 375 horse stock, thats 2 mufflers on one tail pipe, and Grandma tuned. An open air cleaner, 1 inch carb spacer, big dual exhaust, and some timing, should break 400 hp. One of my cohorts bought a whole Caddy for $400.00 (41,000 miles, fist sized rust holes). He did exactly as described above, all in a 53 chevy coupe. PLUS its probably got 200 extra foot pounds of torque over a SBC, and torque, not horse power is what pins your ass to the seat.
But let me add, if you must go SBC, its all in the Heads, aftermarket heads. And buying stuff that works TOGETHER. There are so many available parts out there, that its real easy to chose one wrong part, and poof your 400hp is really 190.
If you said 375+ then the remedy is easy. 500 is costly to make reliable on motor alone. But here's a really simple remedy for 375+. Find an early 327 (67 and earlier) steel crank good rods, and pretty easy to come by if you got friends. Find some 194 or 202 heads the camel hump ones. Flat top pistons come anywhere from 9:1 to higher so your pick here. Figure out what RPM range you want ( I'd figure 2500-5000) but again your call. Find a 2x4 manifold and two 500CFM carbs, some decent headers and you are golden. That'll be plenty of fun and will spin easily into the 5 grand range. Next step is matching that with a trans a rear gears to really take advantage of it. Stay away from tunnel rame they are pretty rough on the street and huge cams with tone of overlap also. Lift and good duration will make a screamer. Good luck and have fun! Tim
A lot of outdated beliefs, IMO, but I suppose this IS, after all, a traditional board, eh? Why not 500 h.p. in a cheap ( o.k., reasonably, anyway...) reliable, streetable, low-comp, naturally aspirated engine? We have not had a problem with it. 10.5:1 BBF, iron heads, solid cam, not TOO radical, idles well. Tunnel ram with 2 Holley 700's Harder with a little Chevy, but, I still believe!
So how fast does a NA 350 SBC have to spin on pump gas to make 500 HP? And when its set up to run at that high of an rpm well, how is going to act in traffic? How practical is such an engine going to be to drive across town? Can such a reciprocating assembly be built for how much? ????
go find a $1000 LS truck motor (they are all over) put a manifold for a carb on it, get a blow thru carb and a decent turbo. I know you do not want a power add on but if its under the hood, why note.. or build a solid old motor with around $400hp for about $4000 and add some a 125 hp shot of nitrous.. it will be easy on the street but have the power available when you need it.
I actually have been giving this some thought and it occures to me that a good cheap way to 500 HP is to steal a new Shelby Mustang. if you don't get cought you should be right in the 500 HP ballpark. Of course if you get caught it is going to get real expensive real quick and you may want to plan on getting a divorce because you are soon to have a 6'4" finace named bubba. (not to be confused with GMC Bubba)
Those iron block 5.3 truck motors are the best bang for the buck respond extremely well to modifications. Probably the best dollar per HP ratio out there right now. Don't let the traditional police catch you.
383 all the way 450- 500 hp, not hard. SBC parts are cheap and easy to find. Just watch craigs list for a couple weeks. Go for it, you'll love the way it raps when you nail the gas. Then you can start looking for a stout trans and rear.
First off, it wont take ANYTHING LIKE 500 hp to run high elevens in a well set-up 3000-3200lb car. An honest 400-425 is going to do it but its not gonna happen with the usual "HAMB friendly" 3.55s you can forget that bullshit. Yes, its possible to build a streetable 500hp 355 on a budget, but first off, if you have to ask how, you arent going to be able to do it, it is NOT gonna run on 87, and it is NOT gonna like 3.55s and an 11" converter. It CAN be done on 92/93, and its not all THAT difficult. But its gonna take way more cam, carb and compression than someone that has to ask how to do it is going to be prepared to run. Its not HAMB stuff, its Speedtalk or Yellow Bullet stuff.
Oh and some more hogwash on this thread, FORGET camel bumps if you are trying to build a streetable low-buck 500hp small-block. Not that its impossible to make 500hp with camel bumps, but if 500hp on a budget is your goal, you cant afford to leave that much on the table when it comes to heads.
I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are "all knowing", and must have spent endless hours searching and scouring the Canadian Tundra looking for this kind of stuff. As a matter of fact I have a pair of cores that would suit this type of build right now, and they are priced in the $500.00 to $800.00 dollar range for 2 bolt or 4 bolt mains respectively, both with closed chamber heads. To answer your question, YES, they are easily obtained in this price range. If your interested, I can set you up with as many as you would like to purchase at that price, all guaranteed to sonic good at .030, and most of the later 4 bolt blocks to .060 over. Of course you will need to pick up the tab for shipping.
$500-$800 is actually a DAMN good chunk of change for a core, considering that I have never paid more than $200 for a good 390 FE core that will go to .080, and 010 350 blocks are easy to find at $200. And if you had a clue, you would know theres no "tundra" in the greater Vancouver area, its WAY warmer here than it is in the midwest. And yes, I have searched for 351 cleveland blocks around here, they are scarce, Which is reflected in the core price THAT YOU POSTED and when you find them, most of them are already at .030 and will not go farther. Anybody on here paying $800 for 350 cores?
Oh yea, and one more question for the fng. How many blocks did you go through before you found two that weren't core shifted so badly that they COULD be bored? I will give you one thing, once you find a usable cleveland, it will be easier to make 500hp than it is with the chevy.
I would like to address several of your comments in order there, "All Knowing One". Yes, I have built, or had built for me, several Ford Cleveland engines, at .030, and they have all checked out fine. I have included some pictures for your viewing pleasure below. How many have you had checked, my guess is none, zero, nada, and you are just regurgitating internet based urban legend, or unsubstaintiated opinion. That is commonly refererred to as BULL SHIT here in the States. I am not sure what the Fe information you are spewing on about has to do with anything in this post, so I am guessing that it is more mindless rambling about nothing mentioned here. I see no value in it, but here again, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, right? Yes, $500-700 is a good chunk of change, but that leaves enough left to complete an engine on or about at the $3000 budget mentioned by the original poster. Sorry, it is not 1974 anymore and stuff cost more than it used to. The engine with the BME intake is a pump gas 10.5:1 engine and the dyno report is listed right after it. 582 HP. The next one is a 70 M Code in a 73 Montego GT, the next is a 4.00 inch stroke Clevor shown here because a CLevor was mentioned previously, and the last picture is a 95 Mustang GT with another .030 solid lifter closed chamber Cleveland in it. I have yet to experience a core shift, or thin cylinder wall issue on any of the Clevelands I have built or worked on, not that it couldn't or doesn't happen, but not on the stuff I have worked on. I have several other Cleveland projects and parts if you would like to see some more. As far as the tundra comment, that was meant to indicate to you that maybe you are not located in an area of the world that this stuff is readily available, not a geoghraphy quiz. You are correct in that I am a FNG on this forum, but I have dealt with douche bags like you for a long, long time. Anyway, I am positive I have made my point, and backed it up.
Winner I made 505rwhp with a stock 302, home ported heads, blow-thru carb I built and a Holset H1E I got for $80 off a back-hoe. Had maybe $1,000 in the whole motor/turbo setup You could probably get out to 600-700rwhp with one pretty easily if you took the time to port everything. I bought a Holset HT60 that was on a N-14 cummins for $150 from a local diesel salvage yard awhile back. If you want the cheapest 500hp you cannot beat a junkyard 302/350 and a 62-70mm turbo
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