History What was the FIRST chopped 1949-50 MERCURY

I don't think it is. The trunk line looks shorter in the pic

 

Thats a hair in the negative!

 

Im shot. Thats what I was going by and why I dont write on shit like this, aside from the fact that im not as into it anymore.

 

That's too funny! I was telling myself damn that trunk is short!

 

One more item nobody has seemed to notice, aside from the 'flow' of the roofline in the photo with Sam in the goggles, not smiling...
Look at the upper lines of the windows, door and quarter...there is a particular absence of 'flow' here, as on the roof.
Sam's, conversely, has ultra-straight lines, and perfect execution of 'B' pillar fit/finish.

Just something that 'jumped out' at me, recalling my '36 3-window I chopped as a youngster...

 

any help?

was the amount removed ever noted

i tried my best to size them accurately poor attempt ...

 

Well even if it was it most likely was inaccurate. I do remember that the Hop Up Article on the Wally Welch spoke of a rather heavy chop - in numbers - while everybody can see the chop is actually rather mild. Heavy numbers on a chop looked impressive back then.. and still is. So these where often "manipulated" in the conversations and in write ups.
Best way to determent the actual chop is to measure the photos. And door length could be a base measurement to determine the hight of the chop.

 

Did Marcia do any of her own developing? Would that possibly be the reason for no date stamps on the pictures if they are not there?

 

Yes, Marcia did do all here own developing.

 

Cool thanks. That would probably explain why Cleatus didn't see any dates on the pictures in the photo album of Jerry's car being chopped. She probably never thought it would be someting that anyone would care about.

 

Yeah most likely... I had hoped that perhaps a few or just one would have had a written date on them. But I guess not. So this most likely is a dead end as well.

We still need to hear from Jeff about his talk to Jesse Lopez.
Jeff, what had Jesse to say about this? did you ask him if he remembers if Jerry's Merc was cut first, before Sam tackled his own Merc?

 

The fact that we now know pretty conclusively that Jerry's was chopped in 1951 would lead me to believe as M.W. stated that Sam had to have started some of the customizing on his car before Jerry's was chopped which might lend some justification to George mistaking the pictures of Jerry's chop for Sam's.

 

Does Evel have the pictures that George used in the books? If they were copies they might possibly be dated.

 

I don't know. I know that the Barris Shop has the JErry Quesnel Chop book at the moment. I think it belongs to John Barris, he must have loaned it to George, so that he can use it for the new book they are working on.
But I don't know for sure if there are more copies at the Barris Archives... I assume they are though.

 

Too bad Sam died so young. SO much history and knowledge was lost when he passed away. I bet if he was still alive he'd be a cool grumpy old bastard and would remember everything.

 

Thanks Rikster for the information.I just finished chopping a 49 4 door .The owner asked me ,WHO was the first to chop a Merc? I told him I think it was Sam Barris.I will tell him to check this out.

 

okay I ain't given up yet!

sorry about my poor attempt at flippin the profiles and cutting and pasting i need to hone my skills at "windows paint"
OOOPS forgot about home film developing.....

could some one do a actual dual time line day by day month by month with known dates...49-52

bought , pictured plate dates , publicly shown, sold , magazine article inprint,

i guess i watch to many HAWAI FIVE-O reruns

 

Problem is we don't know the answer to most of these questions on either car. Rik posted most of the info we know for each car on the first page. But here is a quick run down for Sam and Jerry's car.

We have no idea when either were bought.

Both are shown with 1951 plates and from the info I have been given from plate collectors these plates could not have been obtained before Jan 1st 1951. Jerry's car was on the road unchopped with 1951 plates. The only pictures we have of Sam's car are finished with 1951 plates

The first we know Sam's was shown was the Oakland Roadster show Feb 20-25 1951. These are the first pictures we have of Sam's car chopped or not.

The first time we think we have a picture of Jerry's being shown publicly chopped was the Montebello Armory show but we have no dates as to when that showed occured. It is assumed 1951 but no idea on month.

We have Marcia Campbell's pictures of Jerry's car being chopped and from the picture of it unchopped with the 1951 plates we now know that this could not have happened before January of 1951.

Sam's car was sold shortly after the Oakland show but we do not know a firm date.

Don't know when Jerry's was sold. Jeff?

Jerry's car was first seen in a magazine in Polpular Science October of 1951. No idea when the pictures were taken for the article

Sam's was first seen on the cover of Motor Trend December 1951. We are pretty sure his car was sold and moved to Iowa by this time so we don't know when these pictures were taken either.

More questions than answers.

 

thank you
thats the best info we know ..all together

this was not "overhaulin" so what would any one speculate as to length of time to do the actual work
time estimates in a "1950"shop
dismantle
layout
cut
weld
redo
body work("lead?")
progress pictures (ha)
glass cut?
paint
reassembly

stand by completd car for picture

even regular paying customer cars took months weaved into a multijob schedule , so a piece meal /as" time permits" job ?
done this way I assume would be a pretty lengthy procedure,add other mods to SAM'S and well ?

I suppose the well equipped BARRIS shop could get the tops lowered in a thrash week end ?or a weeks late after hours with a few helpful guys working steady.


any dmv records availible or ever researched ?

 

Not sure on timeframes. The Matranga Merc (obviously a different body style) was said to have taken over a year but I am sure other cars were much quicker so it is really anyones guess. I would imagine Sam's car took a number of months at least especially if he was working on it after hours but we have no idea what order he did any of the work. Not sure if Jerry ever gave Jeff a time frame for the chop on his car.

According to the plate collectors there are no DMV records available for this time frame.

 

The mail man just delivered this to my door...
Ultra Rare Complete Step by Step Booklet for the Jerry Quesnel 1949 Mercury - published by the Hop Up magazine team in early 1952.
I have also found a similar booklet on the Sam Barris 1949 Mercury... but that was send to me by surface mail and will take a few weeks to get here.

As soon as I have all the details I will publish them here....




ah wait... its fake...

would have been nice though

But I guess it would be to easy...
This, what we do here on this thread is so much more fun!

 

LOL Rik you are a joker!! Could you imagine if something like that turned up.

 

SORRY
I WAS DISTRACTED

the new RODDERS JOURNAL was in the stack of mail and I have examined it like it was braille

I can add only this

the camera she used would have had fairly large size negatives ..
the number of negatives per roll (30+) could have been large so more could surface

as hard as I tried I was unable to read any info on the backs of the photo's

I was unable to read the label from the album cover

SAM BARRIS wore 3 different shirts in the merc photo spread ?in one day?
it is a lead sled for sure
unsure of the channeled 32 caption date .. looks like a 53 Texas plate..see if dates are right ez to get em wrong .. now its in print

now back to the diggin

 

The 32 Ford Roadster photo on page 111 and its incorrect photo caption is something added by TRJ after I submitted my material. The photo was submitted by Barris thinking the girl in the photo was Marcia Campbell... well its not!

The car and photo have, as far as I know nothing to do with Marcia Campbell. They are from 1953, when Marcia had already moved on to other automotive subjects, and away from Hot Rods and Custom Cars.
After my material was submitted I have not seen a proof of how the final lay-out and TRJ reworked article would look like... until I received my advance - printed - copy. Of coarse I was shocked, but by then it was to late to correct it!

So please ignore page 111 of TRJ#51!

 

Please mail it to me .. I need one !

 

Hi Rik !
Killer thread ! I have a question , chopping the fourties Fords I think it was a must to cut out the upper frame of the rear side window and reproportion it before insert it into the side again and there are pictures of ? Jerry Quesnel Merc being cut in this way . -49-51 Mercs flow just nicely without doing this operation and seeing Jerrys chopped Merc there seems to be a mismatch in the flow between the door window opening and the rear side window opening possibly due to this cutting out and reposition procedure , I dont see this mismatch in Sams Merc , so could this be a clue in Jerrys Merc being chopped first with the technique used in the fourties and when Sam did his own Merc he did not cut away the sidewindow ???
Im not nitpicking Jerrys Merc , its a great custom just very intersting to me to see the build pictures of Jerrys Merc .
When you listed the licensplates in the pictures , there is a unchopped picture of Jerrys Merc with 1951 plates ? was Jerrys Merc not chopped until 1951 ? (I see Bickford already noticed this , sorry I should read the entire post before posting) )
Another interesting redesign were the thinning out the width of the B-post of the doorframe . My custom buddy Jan pointed this out for me when we worked on his -49 after we had done his B-posts . Jerrys Merc had it done , Sams Merc seems done and also the Louie Bettancourt Merc , very suddle and nice touch .
Wolf

 

It is possible that Sam didn't cut out the side windows on his car but it was done that way on the Sonzogni car which was definitely chopped later on so it seems strange that they would have done it on Jerry's car, not and Sam's and then again on the Sonzogni car.

According to the information the license plate collectors told me there was no way Jerry could have gotten a 1951 plate before Jan 1st 1951 so it would seem given the unchopped picture his car was definitley not cut until 1951 which really starts to narrow the chances of Jerry's being chopped first when Sams car was complete other than interior by Feb 20th.

 

It appears that they did the same relief cut above the B pillar on Sam's. I posted a picture(from Rik's site) back on page 5 of the restoration of Sam's car and it looks like lead work was done in the exact same spot as on Jerry's above the B pillar.

 

Some really interesting stuff guys. Thanks for taking the time to analyze...