60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

a Fred Smith photo I believe in the pits (at Lancaster?) Dutch Hoag's #7 in the background




another Fred Smith photo I believe with Graeme Bolia's #15 behind Geoff's car




at Wall Stadium All Star Race battling Maynard Troyer #6 in his Falcon...





another All Star Race this time at Flemington battling Dick Havens #93







At Lancaster splitting Chuck Boos #9 and Fred White in the 4x





battling Dave Nichols and Gary Reichert #18 in two corvaires?




in the pits next to Mike Loescher's Corvaire #88




At Trenton Running down Ronnie Bouchard in the Hop Harrington Coupe with Don Diffendorf in pursuit




battling Dave Nichols again in the #34 and Bryan Osgood in the #09

 

A few more of the Eastern Bandits...

Rene Charland at Islip 1965...




Eddie Flemke in the Judkins 2x










not sure if this is Eddie or Gene Bergin in the car





Eddie in the Vigliarolo #34 (the former 2x) possibly at Martinsville racing Bob Wearing in Harold Smith's #40 vega

 

Your suspicion right, that's Gene Bergin driving the car.
The top and bottom photos are of the first 2x Pinto. Eddie only drove that physical car when it was, as you say, in FV's ownership as #34.
Those two photos must have been taken in '71.
The middle photo is of Eddie in the second 2x Pinto, and was taken in '72.

 

JBull,The first photo in post#10149 is the pits at Shangri-la speedway coming off turn four.Also take note of the indepedent rear suspension on Bodine's car.

 

Google carrell speedway good stuff there. I'm trying to find the quarter midget thread that was on here as I had an anscraft and raced as a kid in the fifties but I'm new to this and not too down on the computer...........jonesy

 

Could anyone provide any info on this photo? Specifically what I'm wondering is if it was taken at Trenton Race of Champions in 1976. The caption states that Satch Worley is in the #17. I am interested in that race because Gary Balough started that race last (60th) in the Bob Johnson owned #17. Balough got out of the car on lap 40 & Satch Worley got in, as the car Satch was driving retired on lap 27. I am curious about why Balough was in the #17 as it was a car he did not normally drive as far as I know, & why he was replaced on lap 40 by Worley (I know Satch Worley did drive the #17 at times.) I assume that this #17 car is the Bob Johnson car, although that car was normally painted purple in most photos I've seen, usually with Ron Bouchard driving, & it doesn't appear that color in this photo. Any information on this photo, or on this race would be really appreciated. Thank you.

 

some shots of Dennis Giroux






some more of Ed Flemke this time in the Manchester Sand and Gravel #10










Ed Flemke at speed in the #10 with Bodine (1) and Evans (61)in hot pursuit

 

Ralph, that shot is from the 1978 Dogleg 200 at Trenton. That IS Satch, and the Johnson 17 WAS purple. Guess maybe the color changed in some stage of the photo being reproduced. Richie won this race after a thrilling battle with Bugsy Stevens, who was wheeling Sonny Koszela's Ford-powered Pinto. It might have been a finish for the ages, but Bugsy's gas tank ran dry with three laps to go. Great day at a doomed track.

 

some more of Geoff Bodine in the Valliant Years....


in victory lane with Miss Shangri La




not a good day for Mr. Bodine




at speed not sure where?





at Pocono, remember Schaefer?






going past a spinning Ollie Silva in the #0




at speed

 

Bobby Allison, Al Tasnady, Ralph Smith

 

Here is a group of interesting photos from another forum. This mans Father was a racer after WWII. Later he became a daredevil. Here is the story and photos

I'm not sure about the year these were taken, or what track, I'm guessing sometime in the 50's as my Dad started racing in the late 40's and ended his racing in 1957 officially, but... there is more to the story..

In the summer of 1957 Dad went over or through the guardrail which was just lumber back then at Kil-Kare Speedway between turn one and two.

My Mother was in the stands screaming and crying just knowing that he was dead.

When it was announced that he was ok she had a great sigh of relief, but as soon as he got back to the stands she informed him that it was her and the baby (she was 7 months pregnant with me at the time) or him and his DAMNED RACE CARS!

All I can say is my Dad must have been seriously PWhipped as he agreed to quit.

But knowing all his friends were there at the races she agreed he could still go and watch.

Well..... back in those days women were not allowed in the pits

So while sitting in the stands with Mom he would say "honey I'm going down to the pits for awhile to see my buddies" and she would just watch the races with one of her women friends while Dad went off to the pits.

I'm sure you can see where this is going..

He raced for several years more under another name.

He would go suit up for the race, clean up, and dry off after and come back to sit with Mom after his race was over as if nothing had happened..

She never caught on!











I have never seen 40 model convertibles raced. I have seen a lot of 30 models that were raced a lot in California but not 40 models

Here is the sons posts about his fathers daredevil days. The man had gonads of brass

Dad was quite the daredevil in his younger days, he once rode a bicycle across the top of an iron bride in his home town as a kid on a dollar bet, then later did it on roller skates.

He traveled with Jimmy Lynch death dodgers. back in the 50's and was one of the guys that drove a motorcycle inside the caged ball, did head on crashes with other cars along with school bus head on and other stunts.

He would get tied onto the hood of a car with his head sticking out in the front, that drove through a burning wall of fire.

To hear it the stuff sounds crazy, but when he explained the stunts to me they all made sense as being easier and safer than they looked.



HOT RODS and JALOPIES: Jimmie Lynch's Death Dodgers were right here in Fort William at the CLE in 1947...

One of the downsides to his wild ways was he ran into a Semi truck head on with a motorcycle once, he lived to tell about it but spent 14 months in a full body cast, he says he had a little button he would push to call a nurse if he needed anything including being scratched as it was a bit hot and itchy in a full body cast after awhile.


Anyone recognize the track?

 

The #64 coupe was still around about 8 or ten years ago...I saw it in the backyard of a fellow that collects old race cars in NY. It was really rough though (somebody could have brought it back, but it would have been tough). It's not there anymore and I was told it got cut up because the frame was rotten. The body might still be around though.

 

How about a couple "before" pictures? These were taken by me in the fall of 1999 at a junkyard in Saugerties NY.

 

This board is amazing. The car was built by Skip Sauer in Norwalk CT. It was a Sportsman. I was wrong earlier. It was a Tobias kit if not mistaken. His dad was Milton Sauer, and my understanding was that he was a long time fan of dirt racing. His sister is Jane Sauer. I know she was married along the way, but she did a lot of track photography. We were not close, I used to show up on Sat mornings and sunday to watch them work on the car, load up. The big thrill was if there was an engine problem. Then they would fire it up. The cars today have mufflers, they were open headers back then, very cool.

 

Why did Bodine choose to run G.N. style hubs as apposed to wide 5's ?

 

Quicker tire change.

 

Not sure if it's completely true or not, but I heard that the Frankland 5x5 GN style hubs were't as fragile as the "wide 5s". They could take a little "rubbin" without breaking...

 

The use of using a 5X5 hub over a Wide 5 was explained to me as this.....
The 5X5 hub has a smaller and lighter rotating mass that allowed for quicker acceleration (much like a smaller flywheel/clutch does) that is why it was used on the rear end. I am sure being smaller also makes them stronger. The use on the front is a convince so you didn't need different wheels for front and back. Geoff and crew were no dummy's. The thought and engineering in this car was way ahead of its time. The more I learned about racecars the more this car impressed me. As I told Bob.. This car changed the face of Asphalt racing the same way the "Batmobile" changed Dirt car racing.

 

Not that it really matters but, if you could have the smaller, lighter rotating mass on only one axle, wouldn't the effect be about the same both F&R (so long as the tires of all 4 were on the ground)?
To put it another way, using them on the front as well would have been not only for the sake of efficiency. Other things being equal, having them on both axles would double the benefit of having them on only the rear.

 

Great job guys, keep the history alive!!! Been busy with the start of racing season, editing videos and dvds and what not! Keep posting away boys!!!

 

With all due respect to the posters, as an Engineer, I would like to pose some challenges to the theories about Wide 5 vs. 5X5 hubs.

The rotating mass and weight difference, (if any) between the Wide 5 and the 5X5 becomes equal when you mount a brake drum or rotor on the hubs.

In my memory, the 5X5 hub and bolt pattern were referred to as the "Grand National Hub" back in the late 60's when it was developed almost solely for NASCAR. In addition to a larger bearing than the stock hubs at the time, it also had larger studs. It was a very efficient set up for pit stops and tire changes.

The wide 5 pattern, which I believe came from the early Ford 3/4 ton trucks was popular in oval track racing because it has exceptional lateral strength. As tires became wider these cornering (lateral) forces increased and the wide 5 cemented it's place with Modifieds.

As advances were made in metallurgy, other hubs and wheels became available and offered equal performance.

Regards,

Moselli

 

Wide-Fives versus Grand National 5x5 hubs....

And how about "six-pin" hubs? They started showing up on dirt Modifieds in the 70's....presumably due to the USAC Champ & Sprint car influences that also brought center steering boxes, torsion bars, etc...

Could it mainly have just been that once "stock car" racers started having professional race shops fabricate their cars, the parts those shops were already familiar with were GN hubs in asphalt (Nascar) circles and 6-pin in dirt (Usac) circles?

Or, maybe disk brake components became readily available for the 5x5 and 6-pin hubs before W-5 ???

 

I actually drove this one once at Middletown in a vintage event....although it was #72 and red at the time. 1939 Chevy body on a 54ish Chevy frame. The original driver must have been a big guy...quite a stretch to reach the pedals and I actually had to loosen the seatbelt to reach the brake handle (lucky you only use that in the pits).

 

Bones.....I would like you to consider another. Since Geoff's 1978 season is considered a benchmark, Maynard's 1978 season might be a little more "apples to apples".....To set the scene you would have to know that Maynard and long time sponsor Nagle Ford split during the winter. People often pointed to money as being a big time factor in Maynard's success. Maynard left to start his own business, now known as Troyer Racecars, with the aid of a 10k loan. Over the winter he designed and built his own car, his first attempt at an "offset" chassis. The first race for this car was the '78 Spring Sizzler at Stafford, where he was the defending champion. It was Bodine's home track at the time. Maynard won out of the box passing Geoff for the lead around the mid-way mark. He did so using a 3k big block built by B&M Speed Shop, while Geoff had an 8-10k new small block in his well heeled Dick Armstrong steed. Maynard went on to win 36 out of 54 races that year. He later returned to whip Bodine again at Stafford in the "Ferrara 100". He started on a loan, Geoff was already with an affluent established team. In addition, Armstrong employed Maynard's old crewchief, Billy Taylor.

36 wins in 54 races
Beat Geoff head to head during his "benchmark" season.
Started from the ground up.

This is why I consider MT's 1978 season the best ever.........kt

 

Pretty stout argument, KT, and I have, as you know, ENORMOUS respect for the guy who built and drove all those gorgeous #6 Modifieds, before and after the Nagle split. And I remember well that 1978 Sizzler, when we all looked on in wonder as Maynard unloaded that white, offset, big-block beauty, and then blew away Geoff, Richie, Bugsy, Ronnie, and the rest. I was also at that Ferrara 100, and several of Maynard's other wins that year. Truly an amazing season. That's the beauty of this debate, that it's all in the eyes of the beholders, and WE are the beholders. I still think there's something about passing 50 wins that sets apart Geoff's 1978 season (and Richie's 1979), but my opinion is just wind coming out of my head, and nothing more. Don't mean to sound like a politician, taking all sides of an issue, but ALL these guys were a treat to watch, and a joy to know. Maynard remains, to me, one of THE great figures in the history of racing in the Northeast.

 

Hey, KT ... I say we discuss 1978 in detail over a cold beer. We can start with the Sizzler, and after three or four days we MIGHT get around to the Ferrara 100. What a year ... Geoff's big win total, Maynard's great season, Richie chasing points again (and taking the NASCAR crown back from Jerry) ... Not to mention vets like Bugsy and Steady Eddie, who were back in the news after having closed 1977 in such a big way ... Bring some aspirin! All the best to you and yours ...

 

And the rest of Geoff Bodine in the Valiant Years....







in it's earlier stages....





launching over Satch Worley in the #45 at Martinsville....








A John Grady Photo from 1970











Next to Maynard at Langhorn




Looks like Pocono








an Ace Lane Photo

 

THat car ids a tobias kit car and the calcium cloride used at the valley was tough on a chassis.

 

I don't know enough even to have an opinion on which was the greatest season. Notwithstanding my ignorance, what interests me is what makes up a "greatest season", and what we might infer from it.

In general (and not in relation to any of the 3 drivers under discussion), how much of the "great" should be numerical? If a competent but less-than-the-best driver had a car that was so superior to the rest that he won a ton of races, did he have a greater season than did the very best driver who finished second in the same ton of races despite driving a piece of junk? Are we talking about the greatest season for driver, for car, or for combo?

Is it right to make a mental adjustment for money spent? If Len Boehler's car was as good as "X"'s, but Len's excelled because of his brains and hard work, while X's excelled because he could pay for more trick stuff and hire someone to bolt it on, should that matter?

Then we have Mark Donohue's "unfair advantage". Andretti-Green totally dominated Indycar one year. The following year, they were nothing special, which was probably not unrelated to the fact that, over the winter, engine supplier Honda had decided that no longer would it have one "factory team" with different motors from the rest.

As the sport has evolved, and sponsorship has gone from being helpful to being crucial, a quality of inertia has taken hold. By that I mean that a driver/car combo that wins in one year will be able to raise that much more money the following year, and its chances of winning again will improve, while the combo with a poor year will be less well-funded the next year, as a result it is likely to do even more poorly the second year, ad infinitum.
I don't think it's a coincidence that, in the modern era, Schumacher won 5 titles in a row (previous longest streak 2, apart from Fangio, who changed teams every year in order to get into best car), and Jimmy Johnson has won 5 in row (previous longest streak 3, done once). Lance Armstrong benefited from the same effect, and after each of his Tour wins was able to fund a better team to ride for him the following year. In a sport in which sponsorship money is key, the rich will tend to get richer, the poor poorer.

In auto racing, one thing that's changed big over the years has been the fragility of the cars. Current cars are more reliable than those of the '70s, which in turn were more reliable than those of the '60s and '50s. A modern car/driver combo that is, hypothetically, 1% better than the competition is going to win more races than the same combo would have done years ago, simply by virtue of being able to finish a higher % of its races. The same would, of course, apply to the driver who had access to multiple cars and would never have to settle for the machine that got bent up the night before.

Another variable across the decades would be working conditions. Perhaps the 3 stars of '78-9 did the same, I don't know, but Eddie and Denny, for example, spent 7 days a week racing and turning wrenches and doing their own towing up and down the coast. I once asked Eddie how he was able to sustain living that way. He replied, "Sometimes I'd drink a 50-50 mixture of Pepsi and coffee. It tasted horrible, but it kept me awake!" If you had to compete in that state, you'd win less often than a guy who was always fresh.

I'm not trying to suggest that any of these things was utterly decisive. None was entirely new either; each would have been present in some form way back when Curtis Turner was knee-high to a grasshopper (if he ever was, and I suppose probably he never was, even though all the rest of us were).
Nonetheless I suspect that, on balance, these factors would have tended to make it progressively more possible over the decades for one driver and team to have a dominant season.