Customs Front Wheel Drive Hot Rods

yeah I know i was just giving the name to the guy. Its quite a ride though. from what i hear it runs like a scalded dog.

I almost forgot what i tell all the punks around that love them japanese fwd cars. "real cars dont make power at the front wheels, they lift 'em" I saw it on one of those motivational type posters with a picture of a transam standing the front wheels atleast i think it was a trans am its been a while since i saw it

 

Looking back at the Morgan three wheeler, the one with the V-twin in front of a radiator grille (which is actually an oil cooler)... I've wondered about building something similar with a small four cylinder FWD setup and actually moving the radiator behind the engine ala Morgan style. Maybe a three cylinder Geo or Suzuki engine. Keep the entire original front suspension and drivetrain, build a Morganesque frame and body behind it. With the engine hanging out in the open in front you could probably get by with a smaller radiator too. If not maybe move the radiator behind the seat. Just a crazy thought! More of a retro commuter than a hot rod though. I've been contemplating a Morgan like "car" using a Honda CX 500 water cooled V-twin in front of a VW Beetle front suspension...

 

The Blackjack Zero uses an aircool Beetle gearbox driving the front wheels through Golf (Rabbit) driveshafts and hubs using flipped diff. Engine choice is VW flat 4 or Moto Guzzi Vee twin;







Given that you can get an adapter to put just about anything on the end of a VW gearbox this would be a great way to go. The gear change is particularly good because you are using the rod directly - in a Beetle you do it through rods, cranks and cables.

 

Ned - the gearbox on the Renault 4 and early 5 is right at the front - could look like some sort of front mounted blower done right and stuck through the radiator grill.

 

me too.

 

i was trying to figure out the Crosley racer for a WHILE until i saw that the halfshafts were out.
i love the Miller Fords.... they look like road-bound airplanes.

 

Discuss how and why an approach so seemingly backwards and more complex than the conventional RWD layout has now been adopted as standard design? The vast majority of all cars currently produced are FWD!

 

My all time favorite front wheel drive Hot Rod.

 

If you really want that question answered, be prepared for an extensive analysis. There's a doctoral thesis in there

The short answer is, the dominant system of economics demands the cultivation of a condition in which critical volumes of production are absolutely necessary. Why is three or four chapters of the above thesis, but what it comes down to is capitalizing on a unique capacity, i.e. to maintain production at a certain volume, in order to achieve an advantageous market position. Another two chapters or so are about how that changes the market itself, and consequently the society that supports it, into something quite different.

In automobile manufacture the obvious holy grail in the above terms was unitary construction, which is why manufacturers like Ford and Citroën adopted it long before there really was a reason. The reasons came afterwards. Simultaneously the need to maintain a critical level of consumption meant cultivating urban vehicle traffic, which generates an advantage in shortness. Put the two together, and you've got the current predominant vehicle concept of a stressed box with a drive train strapped across the front of it. It's short, albeit heavy, and it works better by the million.

In a sane world there would be fewer cars but more manufacturers, and that scenario would be better served by a "floating ladder" sort of vehicle concept. That is longer but lighter, and works best in small batches.

Most suspension theory of the past half-century has presupposed the stressed box. Making the "floating ladder" idea work requires a different approach to suspension. That's why solving "the problem of the car" is not about new systems of propulsion but about being clever with suspension.

 

I'd say you hit your head right on the nail.

 

To get back to the original question, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Steve Grimes modified shown at the Detroit Autorama with a rear engine Buick straight 8 and front wheel drive.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565423&highlight=detroit

 

This thing?


It's getting a lot like late-'60s/early-'70s showrods: it's very interesting but wholly impractical. I don't mean fuel-filler-in-the-trunk impractical, I mean can-barely-drive-it-off-the-trailer impractical. First, it's got all the weight on the non-driven wheels. Second, the driven wheels are going to unload during acceleration. Third, there's no way to dial in any kind of self-correction in the steering. Believe me, I've done some head-scratching around rear steering.

So, it's sculpture. But then I'd have expected a nicer stance ...

 

In an older 40's or 50's Buick,Olds or Caddy(larger cars) it would be interesting to see a '70 Eldorado front clip install.That was the highest horsepower 500 cube produced,I owned one and if you braked against the converter and stomped on it it would engulf the car in tire smoke as long as your foot was in it,pretty wild sight!

 

Sorry, Front wheel drive and hot rods simply do not go together.
And that contraption with the green wheels is so poorly thought out it would crash if ever driven with gusto on anything resembling a windy road.

It's nothing more than a rich man's attention grabber conversation piece.

Forget it. Real hot rods are rear wheel drive.

End of.

Mart.

 

My 48 COE is fwd. Don't have a lot of miles yt, but seems heavy duty.

 

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I believe the Miller book mentioned FWD allowed a lower center of gravity than than RWD systems available at the time.

Low CG means, and meant, less weight transfer to outside wheels, and potential for greater cornering power.

Dan T

 

I don't see why Cords should be excluded - they make legitimate hot rods when modified and I have seen a couple of customs based on Cords too.

Here's a 1936 Cord Westchester I saw with a Chevy 350 and 4T60....

 

Was there a local contest on how many mis-matched components can be hung under the dashboard??

Proper FWD in a thirties car must have the trans ahead of the engine, as was done by all and sundry who actually produced FWD in the thirties. It is the only way to keep the proportions correct.

Cosmo

 

This Cord used the 4T60E trans attached to the original stock suspension. They did not have to mess with the proportions.

 

Huh? I don't claim to be an expert, but isn't the 4T60E a transverse FWD transaxle? The engine in that Cord is longitudinally mounted, so it has to have a conventional RWD transmission. Even if it was turned 90 degrees and hooked up to a 4T60E, the engine would have to be sitting between the headlights to connect the half shafts. What am I missing?

 

Terry Vaughan built a 29 roadster pickup vw powered. Not fwd but still neat

 

Yes, 4T60E is a transverse transmission. The T in the name gives it away. It is also electronically shifted.

Might be an Eldorado or Toronado transaxle.

 

The original Cord used basically a standard engine/trans turned backwards connected directly to a standard diff, with a slip connector instead of a driveshaft, and the trans had a very short output shaft and housing. The front of the diff bolted directly to the output shaft. That "bump" in the center of the lower grille covered the diff.

The trans could be a Toro/Eldo trans (late 80s model) since those had a longitudinal mounted engine, but I thought those trannys were made like the original FWD Toronado. The trans on those was similar to a conventional rear drive trans that was tucked alongside the bell with a chain "transfer case" right behind the bell housing. The diff was mounted directly to the trans and the right drive axle went between the bell and oil pan. That put a lot of the engine weight over the drive wheels. The Cord trans was more like the LS Chryslers (and Audi, some Renaults like the Renault/Eagle Premier), but put in backwards.

 

In other words, the Cord had the same layout as the Citroën 7/9/11/15CV and DS, and the Renault 4/6/16 and original 5? But was the diff between the clutch and the gearbox as on the French cars, or at the very front end as on the L29? The photos suggest the former.

In that case the best transaxle for a sbc-into-Cord swop would probably be a Porsche 911 5-speed. There are automatic, semi-automatic, and sequential versions, too, if I'm not mistaken.

If I remember correctly the diff housing on a THM425 (Toro/Eldo) and its later derivatives is separate from the main case, so presumably it would be possible to engineer an extension to bring the front axle line ahead of the engine.

What I don't like about the above installation is that the flexible exhaust conduits no longer have exhaust pipes in them. I'd have made headers that feed into them, or subtly eliminated them entirely.

 

-That's correct. I don't know how that Cord did it (though I'd be interested to know) but the old "Vector" supercar from the late eighties and early ninties used a THM425, with a right-angle drive attached to the trans in place of the stock differential. That right-angle drive then attached to a proper differential (something like a Jag IFS, though I don't know the details) so the engine was transverse in the car.

Doc.

 

As far as I recall all the Cords were like the L-29, only the later ones had a shorter trans and diff nose, or the adapter between the two was shorter. I've only seen one of the later ones up close, and that was a long time ago. I've seen photos of the L-29 -- it's noticeably longer between the engine and axle.

 

LOVE it! what drivetrain did you use?

 

Back in 93 at 1st Americruise in Springfield Mo, I saw a 47 ford pu with toranado 455 transaxle in the bed with steering secured not to turn and it was almost undetectable except the wheels. I always thought about doing that to corvair pickup.

 

Here's a factory blueprint I found - on a South African Cord site of all places!

I don't think there's room for an engine and a gearbox between the front-wheel centreline and the firewall. There's lots of room for a gearbox ahead of the front wheels, though.

Likewise this cutaway seems to show a gearbox ahead of the front wheels, with a starter motor on top of it:

 

So nobody has any current images of a "HOT ROD" with FWD.......
Please re-read #1.....