May 2011 Banger Meet Spring has sprung now drive'm

Interesting post about the mags, Jimski- Never thought about the output of a car mag vs a "farm" mag. Figured that with increasing revs, the voltage would go up with either. I guess that there is a point where the coil gets saturated or something.

Of course, most of our bangers never get to 6K, Rich Fox excepted--


Herr Bert

 

Farm mags just aren't much over 2500 ...carbon brushes and such

No on elses 1930's BMWs went 6k either

It ran like the ''Hammers-0-Hell'

Herr-less Bluto

 

Crazy; As I had all of this extra time last night, with no end of the world in sight, I was thinking about your post. I bet if you made a small run of these , say 24, I bet you could sell them all. You would have the best of two worlds with your concept ...looks + function. Where do I send my cheque ???
Ron

 

Do em outta Billet!!!!!


Ron if you bypass the internal coil A MAG BECOMES A DIST.............

 

You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge, Jim
Thanks,
Ron

 

You need an external coil and condensor but there is still no curve

There is a guy that converts a Vertex to distributor but he drills a hole thru the coil and it is compromised

I think it would be easy to maje a dist look like a lay down mag

Then you need a front drive

When the kids switched to a high output on the liner the pop and bang of the nitro dissapeared...... I'm thinking that a hot mag may mask it's being curve lessness..... if that's word
30 min on a chassis dyno would tell

 

Bluto,
I agree with you about the mag for the most part, but the Ford A/B engine is so vulnerable to detonation that the ability to retard the timing at low rpm and High load will make them last a lot longer on the street. Even with insert bearings and 40 psi oil the cranks just don't like too much timing. I have two cranks that are now four that are victims of this.

I have seen Vertex mags that have centrifugal advance mechanisms on them. One of these days I will take a trip up to Zig and see if they can set one up for me..

Ron,
What mag were you thinking of using. Wico?

Here are a couple I have. the two top ones are Wico's and the Vertex is from a Pontiac super duty midget engine. The Wico's have a impulse drive that retards the timing for starting, but disengage after a few hundred rpm.

 

The later Wico's have a breaker point and rotor set up just like the Vertex.

The earlier Wico DU mags were Carbon brush mags.

.

 

I've been looking at mags at the swap meets but I have no clue what to get. Could someone list some of the names and model numbers that would suit our purposes? How to modify or update? Is there a good thread on this subject?
Norm

 

Crazy; I suppose the Wico would fit and look the rightest (?) for the era but I guess I need to be told what would be best. Also the availability would have to be considered as there is nothing to choose from in Thunder Bay. Thank god for the internet !!
Thanks for posting !!
Ron

 

If you have detonation real spark control is necessary. The event must happen exactly when needed.

I would suggest that you check all the combustion chambers for sharp edges and smooth them.Dont forget the edge of the bore tops too. Next look at the head with the spark plug installed NO THREADS SHOWING ON THE PLUG OR HEAD.... even the smallest section will wil glow and cause a problem. There are different copper washers made by Champion. These are differing thickness To move the plug in and out. i Had a friend that was racing for a major company. Built his own engines they were fine on the dyno but busted in so many races he lost them. One day the head was sitting on the bench ...sure enough 3 threads showing....

Once a fellow at a high dollar race shop says ''These engines make the same power with ANY advance'' and he was about 50% down on my engines. Well they had put new seats in for bigger valves (they needed smaller valves) and had left sharp edfes on the outside of the new seats showing.We never spoke of the valve size ........ but he wanted to argue about the seats ..... so I left knowing I could beat him any day anywhere.

I really don't think flat heads will suck enough fuel to detonate .... if it is carbon glow you need to add water/alky injection to keep chamber clean ... this is something done for a long time ..... I have an NOS system from the 30's-40ish

These systems add compression and slow burn pourly adjusted they can bust your engine quickly

I'll take photos in the morning and post them here tomorrow ...it's too late here to deal with photos.....

Good nite.....

 

Ron Vertex was used by racers a long time. In the 30's too

They are just the best. And get Crazzzzzz to post Zig's number

Sleepy time now

 

With the mag thing start looking at hall sensers and motor cycle ignitions yes it can be done I have one for my New Pick project many modern cars are moving this waysmall modern coils can be hidden inside I started with the end plates from an old Simms mag and used a billet center to hide the coils and sensers.

 

Interesting post bluto and some good advice I will check out all the things you list thanks

 

Here are photos

 

Late to the party this month...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=463756

Sweet tourer btw - building a full fendered T Tourer m'self at the moment on a stock A chassis. I'll be fitting the T spring from beneath the Fordor and replacing it with something that'll cope with a fully laden Sedan. Pity as it handles well two-up...

Done nothing more technical to the Fordor other than drive it to a WW2 airbase and a local bluegrass festival. Approached by someone who told me he knew it was a '30 Sedan by the splash aprons. Took him for a spin in it and he was all misty eyed about the A's he'd owned since he was a teenager growing up in Canada. Told me he sold the last in 1972 - a '30 Murray Sedan - to pay for his flight over here to play music.

Looked him up when I went home - Robert Winquist. Viola, Royal Philharmonic, Sadler's Wells Royal Ballet, a fairly extensive musical career including playing fiddle for Rose Maddox on tour. Kinda humbling that I could make his day by taking him for a clattery spin in a scruffy old Cee-dan...

 

My father bought this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=577235

We have never met Nate before but great to deal with and cant wait to eventually meet him one day.

Its going in this:


Its a car that has a strong history here in NZ as the Martin & Rea flathead V8 dragster.

I enjoy reading the banger posts and wish to contribute more some how

Thanks,
Greg

 

4 P.M. central time 5-21-11
SOS police issued/stamped/installed new vin on my touring
10 months 14 days...
time to get some legal miles on the phaeton

tk

 

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37306

Could use some help with this guys I'm trying to sell some extra parts I have to try and get my banger done and on the road, I also have a couple 32 axles, one is very nice the other has a couple slight bends that could be ironed out with some heat. Prolbly do 350 each on the axle, I know this isn't the for sale forum but I figured you guys wouldn't be to upset with me posting this on here. Thanks!
-Don Keech

 

Bluto, you don't pass or cross Belgium for any reasons in the near future ?

There are few 4B guys over here who certainly want to meet you !

We love to learn about bangers from you....

Regards,
Filip

 

I Have 3 50s ford prefect distributers which have mechanical advance and apparently fit model A engines.
I have 2 types see the pictures all have 10o stamped on the point plates, 2 have a shaperer points 1 has a wider flat section on the shaft that opens the points. Anyone have an idea of the total advance that these will give and which will be better?
Brendan

 

The only way to really know is to put them is spin them is a Sun or Allen machine

Sometimes weights don't move like you think

Do the postwar 6's (anti clockwise) move the same rotation as an A?

 

Brendan

I've been told that they give 10 degrees advance, They need to be modified to give 10 degrees advance for 1000 rpm.
I do know a guy who is working on a way to get the advance curve required for the to be fitted to a banger.

I hope to find one for myself, and get my friend in Wagga to work his magic on it

 

10 Degrees on the weight is 20 crank degrees.

Like I said spin them up on a machine ...... you'll no nothing unless you do

Second what 1950 Ford 4???? They are all 6's and 8's aren't they? Except for tractors

You guys do know I don't know squwat about Fords

Another point ...... When your an American in Europe everyone thinks your an expert on Fords ...... I am not.

 

I know what you mean. The Japanese guy down the street knows everything about Toyotas too.

 

He said Prefect, which is an English Ford. Same as the Anglia, but with four doors, I think. I'm pretty sure they used a four cylinder derived from the Model Y engine.

-Dave

 

OK I understand now an English Ford.

 

Providing that the direction of rotation is the same, and you can find a cap with the right number if holes for the plug wires that fits the body, it isn't impossible to change the number of cylinders. I have converted Bosch distributors from VW's to work on Indian 42*V twins, by making another (strange looking to an auto guys eyes) cam.

Herb

 

The exhaust looks great Easy to run a hood if you want too.


[/QUOTE]

 

Bluto, you stated "if you bypass the internal coil A MAG BECOMES A DIST............."

The fact that it still creates it's own spark without a battery or generator to charge the coil, wouldn't it still be considered a magneto.
My understanding is some magnetos run an external coil and sometimes condenser for heat or space concerns.

or am I just arguing semantics?

I just had an old Scintilla w/centrifugal advance for my A motor rebuilt by Len Hughes in Indiana.
He put an updated internal coil (separate condenser still inside the cap) and recharged the magnets. It went from .9 amp output to 2.2 amps. Great work, quick turnaround and she doesn't run rich anymore