It's painted with 2k satin black paint. The chassis is pitted, so there's no way I'd pay to have it powder coated. Besides, I still have to do some mods to mount my rack and pinion. So, I'll have to touch it up.
Ok. I'm mocking up my rack and pinion and checking for interference and problem areas. Of course, there are some! My 360 LA Mopar Engine has a rear sump on it and that is going to interfere with the r&p. Is it easy to convert to front sump? Are the parts readily available? Anybody have what I need?
Hmm. Can I just buy a pickup tube and a front sump pan for another SB Mopar engine? If so, which one should I specify so that I get a front sump?
Modern LA engined Trucks & vans are rear, cars are front sump. You'll also need the oil pump pick, dipstick & DS tube. Does the R&P move it that much? normal thing on these is to use the rear sump pan.
Speedway has this http://www.speedwaymotors.com/273-340-Small-Block-Mopar-Stock-Sump-Oil-Pans,7277.html They might have the matching oil tube This one might be too deep http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-15-910/
Rock, you can see by the pictures of the pans in the above links that the "front" sump pan doesn't really have a front sump, its more of a center sump pan. I believe the only sb pans that were really a front sump would have come off the pre-72 Dodge pickups with a 318. I suspect finding one of those and the needed pickup tube may be a challenge. Might be easier to modify you pan and pickup tube to fit your needs. When I did the Cavalier rack in my 39, the rack fit right up behind the cross member, between the sump and the cross member with a rear sump pan. I'll see if I can find some old pictures. Gene
Rock, you can see by the pictures of the pans in the above links that the "front" sump pan doesn't really have a front sump, its more of a center sump pan. I believe the only sb pans that were really a front sump would have come off the pre-72 Dodge pickups with a 318. I suspect finding one of those and the needed pickup tube may be a challenge. Might be easier to modify you pan and pickup tube to fit your needs. When I did the Cavalier rack in my 39, the rack fit right up behind the cross member, between the sump and the cross member with a rear sump pan. The center picture looks like the rack is hanging low, but the picture was taken from under the car looking from under the cross member. The rack sat about 1/2" below the cross member. Gene
Well, since I shortened by steering arms a couple inches, it moves my rack forward the same amount. Also, I chopped a round and a half out of the springs, which makes the rack sit higher. I'm going to take some pics and do a trial fit without the pan today, I hope. I'll post pics later. Any idea what year/model vans had the front sump setup? According to my book, there was a mid sump for cars and a front sump for vans. Don't know what year vans, however.
Okey Dokey. I plunged headlong into mounting my r&p today. I have some obstacles to overcome, the biggest being moving the oil pan sump forward of the rack. Hopefully, that won't be a big deal but I will only tack my brackets until I find out for sure. You can see from the pictures that besides the oil pan problem, the '41 chassis is apparently wider between the rails than some of the later models that have used the Cavalier rack. In order to center the rack up, I had to build an offset box to drop the mount from on the passenger side, as shown in the pictures. I made temporary brackets to hold the rack in place while I jockeyed it into position. Also, I made adapters that let me use the Cavalier tie rods with the Plymouth tie rods. I chopped off the RH thread end of both of my tie rods to make the adaper. I turned down the RH thread end of the Cavalier adjuster until it just fit the i.d. of the old tie rod. I also had to shorten the Cavalier adjuster and the Plymouth tier rod thread on one side. Curiously, the tie rods I got with my r&p are not the same length. One is a 1/4" shorter than the other. They are now equal length and as parallel to the steering arms as I can eyeball it. The reduction in bump steer will be infinitely better than the OE setup. If I don't have troubles with the oil pan (doubtful), this will have been a relatively easy install. It just required a little noggin' scratchin'.
And a few more pics, including the offset box and the tie rod adapters. Of course, the offset box will have a gusset of some descrption, after I'm sure it all works out.
Kinda sucks that making one mod usually means that you have to go fix something else. My project has been a series of dominoe effects like that. Looks like if you moved the pickup back an inch or so, rhen moved the sump to the rear the same distance, then youd have the clearance. Though not sure if that would reduce oil capacity too much.
Rock, the van front sump oil pan is part # 3418457 and fits a 71-80 full size Dodge van. Question, Can you move your rack froward a couple inches, closer to your cross member? The long tie rods can be bent towards the rear after they clear the rack to match up with your steering arms. If you look at the first picture I posted real close, you can see the center of the rack is actually forward of the tie rod ends and the long tie rod part curves towards the rear about mid way along the length. That would give you more clearance for the rear pan sump. The rack I have pictured is on a 39 Plymouth frame. My rack was a power steering rack, it could have had a longer body, I suppose. Gene
Just to save you some headaches, the 360 oil pan is different than the 318/340 around the rear main seal area.
Thanks for the suggestions, Gene. The PS wouldn't be a problem. THe driver's side might be. I'll have to look and see if there is enough length left to offset the tie rods.
Well, I moved the rack forward about 2 1/2"- 3" and the engine sits over it perfectly. The problem now will be coming up with a tie rod design that connects point A to point B reliably and still offers toe adjustment. On the Driver's side, there is little room between the end of the tie rod and the rack housing when turning to the right. That tie rod will have to be bent at a 45 degree angle straight to the steering arm. The picture where I'm holding the tie rod end up and showing the steering arm is at the right turn lock of the r&p, so visualize connecting the point from the center of the tie rod end to the center of the steering arm hole. Since there will be a short 45 degree bend straight to the tie rod, there can be no adjustment in this section. I'll have to drill and tap that end, screw the tie rod into it and locknut it down. Then, the adjustment will have to be somewhere in the middle portion of the tie rod. The material the tie rods are made from is approx. 3/4" solid round stock. So, I think I can heat and bend it and it will still be adequately strong for a tie rod, even with the 45 degree bend in the end. I do need to check and make sure the 45 degree bend won't interfere with the steering arm when it is in opposite lock. Did I miss anything? Suggestions? I'm a little concerned about keeping the "bent" tie rod in plane when the adjuster is in the middle. Thanks!
I used the tie rod ends from a Dodge Intrepid (they were here) but I suspect the inner part is about the same with the GM stuff. If so, there is plenty of meat to heat and bend without concern, just let it air cool. When you are at the extreme of your rack travel, (full lock in either direction) your tie rods can almost be touching (think 1/4" to 1/2" clearance is plenty) the end of the rack because it won't move anymore. By your pictures, it looks like you can begin your bend towards the tie rod end much closer towards the center, which would give you more room for the adjustment thread. 3/4" to 1" of usable adjusting thread on the tie rods is a lot of available adjustment, most cars have about 1/2" of true adjustment per side available. When your at the outer end of the threads for adjustment sleeve, you need to have at least a length of threads equal to the diameter of the threaded end inside the adjuster sleeve. I would NOT bend the threaded part of the rod end, that is asking for trouble. Any bends have to be made at least 1/4" before any cut threads begin. Also, you can cut and weld a section into your tie rod inner part if you need more length. Be sure to use good welding practices. Also, if you still have some room between the rack and the cross member, you can heat & bend your inner tie rod section forward a bit then heat & bend it back at the point where it needs to clear the rack (think a "Z" to add more clearance between the rack and where the rod bends back making a less sharp bend.) You are free to do whatever you need to do to the tie rods to clear stuff, as long as the inner connection at the rack and outer tie rod ends all maintain the same relationship to each other through the lock to lock transition. Does this make any sense? Gene
All of that makes sense and was pretty much where I had arrived in my thinking Gene. Thanks for the confirmation.
Rock, Hello. Wow you sure have been busy... What kind of horsepower are you getting with the 360? I used to have that motor in my '79 Jeep Cherokee. We are almost at the motor selection stage in my build. I'm getting a little sticker shock, but it looks like it wil be a Hemi, thanks to Farmer12...LOL. Keep up the good work...get er done!
After further contemplation, I am going to try oil pan surgery as my first option. I don't like the idea of having to bend the tie rods with as much offset as I'm going to have to. My oil pan is already dented, so it's no big loss if I screw it up.
Remember reading about Darts used in Trans-Am, pre Challenger, that they welded tubing into the pan to run the steering linkage through!
Well, I modified my oil pan this weekend and I'm pretty happy with the way it all worked out. First, I had to take a 2" slice out of the sump and narrow it to gain room for my rack and pinion. The pictures will show how that was accomplished. Next, I calculated that I had removed about 96 cu. in. of oil capacity, so I had to add it back somehow. I first thought about adding 2" to the depth of the sump and that would have given me the capacity back but it would have been sitting only about 6" above the road and I thought better of it. Since I had plenty of room on each side, I opted to add "saddlebags" to the pan. Each compartment is roughly 5X5X2 or 50 cu. in. Actually, I tapered the box from 5" to 4 1/2" on each side, so I'm sure I'm right at 96 cu. in. The only modification I had to make to the pickup was to twist the oil pickup tube so that the pickup was moved backward about an inch. I now have to figure out how to get a dipstick that is 2" longer. Anyone got any suggestions? Also, I have to weld a guide tube in the pan for the dipstick. Since I had to cut on the original and since I was bead blasting it, I decided I didn't want any crevices for abrasives to hide, so I took it completely out. All welding was done with MIG, except the inside seam of the "saddlebags, I gas welded those. I had only two leaks to touch up, so I think I'm good. The saddlebag on the Driver's side clears the starter by about 3/8".
After getting my oil pan project finished up, I'm now working on the final details of the of the rack and pinion installation. As you will see from the pictures, I am putting about 10 pounds of excrement in a 5 pound bag. It all fits but routing the exhaust pipe is going to require a lot of tedious fitting, it appears. Also, connecting to the steering rack is going to be tight but doable..................I think. I won't know for sure until I get the body and the sterring column mounted. The steering column may have to be canted ever so slightly to the left. It's tight.
Very cool. Good thinking on adding back the oil capacity. For the dipstick, couldn't you take some this flat stock and weld on an extension to the existing dipstick? If not, maybe Lokar makes a universal 'cut-to-length' dipstick.
Go to the local wrecking yard. Pop the hood on a later model van. The dipstick is roughly 3 feet long, Plenty to cut down to what you need.
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