I had a good friend the late Roy Brown. His dad was the maintenance head over all the Ford property's including the Museum, and Greenfield Village. Roy had the run of all the propertys when he was a kid. After all he was Brownie's kid. Roy would tell stories about how grand the mansions where, and of all the stuff back in the warehouses that the public never saw. They didn't have a schematic of the electrical at Greenflies Village. Old Brownie had it in his head. It's sad to see the area of Detroit today. Flint isn't much better. I went to General Motors Institute in the early 60's, and it was something special.I think it's called Kettering today. That entire area back in the day was something grand where a person could move to Detroit from the farm, or the South and get a job working in the auto industry. He could provide a life for his family that others could only dream about.
"They didn't have a schematic of the electrical at Greenfield Village " I think this is sort of funny, as I was part of the engineering team that did the Greenfield Village Renovation in 2002-03 (I led the Civil design). The electrical was plain scary, I am surprised there were not electrical fires. The electrical boxes were hanging open and rusty, even buried extension cords. All of the systems were a hodge-podge. It's all modern now, it was such a cool project. Crawled all over those buildings and crawl spaces. The place is truly a gem for Michigan, I am happy they were able to raise the money to do the update. It is a must see place to go if you have never been to Michigan.
i was on the electrical crew for the renovation. that was awesome to work in the village.been going there since i was a kid.and it was scary to see the terrible electrical work we were replacing.its top notch now..we have a job in the henery ford now and thats even better.its amazing what they have stored in the back...the golden rod speed record breaker and lots of early hot rods and just cool cars..everyone should go if they get a chance..
I went to high school just outside of Detroit. One of the first things I did when I got my drivers license was drove through the abandoned factories. Great photos!
To answer your query farmergal, try these tony neighborhoods in Detroit that were once home to the auto barons and are still quite vibrant and yesssss, they are in Detroit, not the suburbs . Communities like these examples are exactly the opposite of the aforementioned ruin-porn that pop culture would have you believe Detroit is comprised of from stem to stern. Yes, there are a lot of abandoned buildings in Detroit and yes that is Detroit, but so are these neighborhoods...Enjoy! Palmer Woods "><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lWzfpDtb6YY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="560"></iframe> West Village "><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LcexXY4KxgU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="425"></iframe> Boston Edison Village "><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aMcpg2WGrKo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="425"></iframe> Indian Village "><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/V2Tg7YIOL7s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="425"></iframe>
That about sums it up! There is'nt one reason for this exodus, but the result is people leave an area when the jobs evaporate!
In the above pix, the Civil War monument/statue and the St John's Episcopal church steeple in the distance still exist...the rest is mostly long gone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_Martius_Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileetroit_Front.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CampusMartius1907.JPG
Any pix? That job sounds like a real 'feather in the cap' moment, from a historical point. Digging the avatar-giggity-giggity.
Well here goes...while Hudson's Department Store is gone, part of the old Hudson's complex is still standing and is integrated into Ford Field, and the Opera House still exists but about a block away. (see the second paragraph) http://www.sports-venue.info/NFL/Ford_Field.html
Thanks RuffDaWG, fascinating post and thanks to the wonders of Amazon and world wide delivery I have a copy of the book on its way here along with two on Chicago with a similar feel. Not pleasant reading, but interesting and important none the less.
Nope. The Hudson warehouse, never part of the Hudson store, is not in that pic. The Merrill Fountain, out in front of the old Opera House, was moved to Palmer Park and is still there today. http://www.detroit1701.org/Merrill Fountain.html
Has anyone mentioned the product Detroit was building was the very thing that eventually killed all cities? The automobile,and the road system built for them,allowed people to easily flee the city to the new suburbs.The Burbs gave them a new life with a lawn and far away from the factories they worked at. Leaving behind those who didn't flee ,mostly because of financial reasons,the elderly,the lowest class workers and social misfits.This is the situation with most larger cities in the USA.
i dont think the automobile killed the cities. people live in the suburbs to enjoy a more leisurely lifestyle but travel into city-areas to work on a daily basis. Why do you think we have "rush hour" traffic. The automobiles and manufacturing built the cities...and in the case of New England...the small milltowns. These small milltowns and cities thrived because America was focused on producing what we needed (cotton, thread, clothing, automobiles, military equipment,) and everything inbetween from furniture to lightbulps and flooring. Everything was made right here in America. As technology grew, machines and such replaced human work. Look at the automobile assembly plants today- where robots do a lot of work (many being able to do multiple jobs at once). As corporate America grew they discovered that it would be easier to ship work out to foreign countries and then ship it back home...where labor is dirt cheap. Corporate America and politicians didn't care about employing the American workforce anymore. They care about capitalizing and making the most money; right down to the last dollar. They dont have to pay American taxes producing in this country, they dont have to pay American wages, and they dont have to follow strict labor/production laws like the would here in America. Corporations no longer care about quality of products that were made with care and quality in mind. They care about cheaper costs and cheaper overhead; it doesn't matter about the overall quality. People will buy it because they need it. Try takign out parts from your old car and then look at the replacement you had to buy to replace it. Notice how well-made that old part was. It was made with pride. Not anymore. Today, corporate America has altered our governments and our politicians. The American economy has gone down the toilet because of outsourcing and cheap labor elsewhere. Its a sickening cycle. My dad is in a medical manufacturing industry and medical components are the only thing staying here in the USA because we can't trust quality and adherence to rules...overseas. We can't risk it. When iwas growing up (about 10-15 years ago) my dad was making toy dinasaurs for cereal box prizes and checkers for board games and cell phone components. Not anymore. With everyone crying about the economy; they need to look at these corporations and manufacturing industries and blame them...and the government. You want to fix the economy? bring back manufacturing here in this country so we can start making our own products again. Give the American people jobs. Here in CT during the depression the CT government hired almost 3000 workers to build a parkway frm NY state through our state to keep them employed. it made more sense for the government to pay them to work and give them a job; than it did for them to shell out unemployment. Now our government is more worried about decriminalizing marijuana in our state government.
In my opinion there's a big difference between working in a city and living there and dealing with all that goes on,like crime.And the layout for cities was there before the auto in many cases.The auto just hastened the outward spread of the city and then into the suburbs.
You can't have it both ways. If corporations are to blame for the demise of Detroit. I don't personally think so. And you want to bring back manufacturing to this country so we can start making our owm products again. Where do you think corporations come from? They come from start up company's. I've had five over the last forty years. At what point does the start up company become to large and then become the enemy? I guess they didn't teach you that at UConn did they. If you want to bring back manufacturing to this country make it worth while. The way it's set up at the moment there is no incentive for entrepreneurship in this country. So how are jobs going to come back home. The only way that will happen is through entrepreneurship, and buisness start ups. Why bother! The way the deck is stacked against a new manufacturing buisness makes it almost imposable for it to be successful. Depending on what state I've been in. Every time I built a buisness up to say three million in sales a year, and twenty five employees. The union wanted to come in. After all they needed to protect the employies from me. I was the bad guy. Every time I sold the company out of state. The union and my bum friends that hadn't worked in a year until I gave them a job could go to hell. The only way for a manufacturing company to survive today is to stay small. If you attempt to grow your company to the next level the government,or some union will come in with more restriction, or there hand out. So much for Liberals, and the shit cart they came in on. No one has mentioned the welfare role in Detroit and how it played in it's down fall. A complete generation of young people never saw there parents go to work. Once a month a small check came. In the South they call it mailbox money. That's all these kids ever new, and when it came there time they new the way to the welfare office. If you listen to some they would have you think it was the corporations fault. Not the politics of the likes of Linden Johnson back in the 60's. The blacks came out of the South straight to Detroit and other rust city's by the hundreds. Out of a High School Class of 200 educated kids. 196 would make there way to the North. Of course not all where on welfare, but are you going to tell me it didn't cost Detroit anything. I was in and around Detroit at that time in history. There would be TV news casts about the South to North migration. Those of you that have lived it tell the uninformed about how it really was. "This should be interesting".
A friend of mine sent me this recently. Not sure of its origin but it is written in the format below: DETROIT Is like rock and roll it's like soul Detroit is like the whole idea of cool If you have to explain it to someone, they probably won't understand. You have to see it. Live it. Be it. That's when Detroit starts to move you.
Here is a ray of sunshne for ya'all. I was reading the other day about how many of the companies that outsourced call centers to places like India are now coming back here and hiring Americans..............Why? Because the workforce got the jobs bid up high enough over there that it is cheaper to HIRE US on our soil.
Thanks for this post. I have frequented Detroit for Autorama many times. Good or bad, I love the city! I have a lot of great friends in the area. I, like anyone am deeply saddened to see many of it's buildings sitting dark and empty or in decay. Its a shame. It is wonderful to see a lot of projects in progress to save some of these places and can only hope to see a rise in the trend. Thanks to all for sharing their opinions and knowledge as to the reason for the city's decline. I will continue to visit and be a big fan of the Motor City, I only wish I could have been there in it's heyday!
THANK YOU for posting all of this! I think that I learned something today. I agree that my mental picture of Detroit was 100% shaped by the media and a few websites that portray only the bad things. I grew up in Pittsburgh and witnessed the death of the steel industry and the changes that have taken place since I left for the mid-atlantic coast in the early 80's. But I don't think that I'll ever go back to live & work there. It still has most of the character that it used to have, but shopping centers and apartment complexes have taken the place of the factories and steel mills, and I do believe that they were the heart of the city. I wonder if anyone were REALLY serious about turning an area around if they could convince the legislators to re-write the regulations & tax codes for certain areas to allow them to be "small business incubators". Make the abandoned housing so cheap (because the city probably owns them again because the taxes aren't being paid) that you could renovate & live in one for half what it would have been "worth" back in the day. Of course you'd get the crack houses in some of them, but pay police officers what they're worth to root out the bad apples and to throw them in jail... Or put the criminals on chain gangs with push brooms and paint brushes... It would take a serious commitment from ALL of the residents to fight crime and to take back these streets. Just one man's opinion!
[QUOTE=Tman;6635810]Here is a ray of sunshne for ya'all. I was reading the other day about how many of the companies that outsourced call centers to places like India are now coming back here and hiring Americans..............Why? Because the workforce got the jobs bid up high enough over there that it is cheaper to HIRE US on our soil.[/QUOTE] Tman: That is absolutely true...My friends working in India (ex-pats and native) call that " The 20% Rule " i.e. each time a new business sets up shop in India, the talented, educated and qualified Indians that can do the job, apply to the new company ask for a 20% raise over what their current pay is and usually the new companies pay it because it's just faster, cheaper and easier to hire experienced people than it is to train new inexperienced people. Run the 20% rule enough times and now all of the sudden the savings from outsourcing dries up to nada... The 'sad but true' flip-side of that is the only reason they can afford to do this is because the U.S. wages have also fallen nearly as swiftly as the Indian wages have risen. My ex-wife was a call center floor manager and in 1995 she made $45,000...by 2005 she couldn't get $22,000 for the same job-less than half in 10 year's time. I call it 'insourcing' in which companies layoff the current staff, then staff up with new or even rehires for significantly less...wash, rinse repeat this cycle a few times and you can cut your U.S. labor costs in half within a few short years...'Sad But True' and a fact of life today that my ex struggles with. As I always say " Wages and Salaries Have Not Kept Pace With Inflation" and that is absolutely true throughout North America.
Actualy...I learned a lot at UConn but thanks for asking. I personally think I'm quite educated and quite realistic for being my age. I dont need a stranger to tell me I'm something I'm not. Small business are what make communities thrive. Yes, small businesses are what created the big corporations of today but then you get monopolies which are a completely different topic. Keep in mind that they control a niche market and are rampant in this country despite the laws against them. I like you're argument but if you read my post correctly; you state that my argument was based on corporations who control their markets AND a government tha tis unwilling to get out of its own way to help the American people. Case in point: the almost disasterous debate over the nations debt in our national government a few months ago. I also like how you're blaming a UNion for you having to sell you business and claiming the Union ruined it all for you. There are plenty of US based companies with very happy UNion employees and everyone is a success. While i agree UNion's can be very demanding and sometimes completely unresonable...it takes two to tango in that game and there are ways to work together on that issue. The company my dad works for builds molds and makes medical components. The mold making industry started in the 50's and grew from there. They have grown enormously in the past 40 years and are very successful. The medical component end of the business was started in the mid 90's and started with 4 machines. Today; they have 30+ manufacturing machines to make their devices and boast 70+ employees. If managed properly and if assets are managed prperly there is plenty of potential for growth in businesses to be sustainable AND successful in this economy. The company my dad works for is very thankful for their steady flow of work and they work very hard in every department to do things right and get their name out there. We live in a state where taxes are very high and the overall cost of living is very high. Its hard to make things successful in this state and the company worked with local government to ensure their huge new addition, etc coud be made to improve business while the town cut taxes for them so they could be successful while making major improvements during the worst economy in many years. I'm not saying your an efficient company manager at all but it takes a lot to ensure that you can succeed and make things work. And to add to it...those business my dad works for have zero, yes ZERO, affiliation with unions. They keep their employees happy and stress the importance of health and safety in the workforce. They were recently awarded by OSHA for their efforts. Anyways; with that being said Corporations AND the government are the reason for outsourcing American jobs for cheap labor and cheap work. It is too easy to collect welfare and insurance in this country in exchange for not working and it quite sickening. I understand there are people who need it but the system is abused and abused by thousands of people. I know a guy who is currently unemployed who is currently making more money than he did when he had a job and he has free insurance that is better than my full-time sallary paid friends. Instead; people who grow up in welfare homes have no urge to finish their educations and do good by themseleves and stay away from drugs because they know the government will take care of them to the point where they can get housing and a check every month. If they have kids...its even better. Back in the day when detroit was in its hay-day...American's took pride in their jobs and what they did. They took pride in going to work everyday and filling America with the products THEY made. They knew they had to keep a job and make money and bring home a salary to keep food on the table. The entire way of life was diffeent.
Tman: That is absolutely true...My friends working in India (ex-pats and native) call that " The 20% Rule " i.e. each time a new business sets up shop in India, the talented, educated and qualified Indians that can do the job, apply to the new company ask for a 20% raise over what their current pay is and usually the new companies pay it because it's just faster, cheaper and easier to hire experienced people than it is to train new inexperienced people. Run the 20% rule enough times and now all of the sudden the savings from outsourcing dries up to nada... The 'sad but true' flip-side of that is the only reason they can afford to do this is because the U.S. wages have also fallen nearly as swiftly as the Indian wages have risen. My ex-wife was a call center floor manager and in 1995 she made $45,000...by 2005 she couldn't get $22,000 for the same job-less than half in 10 year's time. I call it 'insourcing' in which companies layoff the current staff, then staff up with new or even rehires for significantly less...wash, rinse repeat this cycle a few times and you can cut your U.S. labor costs in half within a few short years...'Sad But True' and a fact of life today that my ex struggles with. As I always say " Wages and Salaries Have Not Kept Pace With Inflation" and that is absolutely true throughout North America.[/QUOTE] I agree completely and thank you for backing up my comment.
maybe some more good news. The Michigan Central Station Building has a Rehab project under way. saw this in a different publication at work , but also found it in the news http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/06/seeing_is_believing_workers_re.html it could be a positive sign, lets hope
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, and I'm as happy (maybe happier) as anybody to see work being done on the station, but I'm still not sure it's not a publicity stunt. See below: -Dave
The Jalopy Journal
