His profile in this photo looks a lot like Lorenzen. Panch later worked for Gray-Rock brakes after retiring as a driver if my memory serves me right. Panch won both races at Atlanta in 1965 I think, also memory dependent. Does anyone remember Lorenzen driving the #21 at Riverside in '63 and Gurney driving the # 28. Lorenzen did a bit of "agricultural" racing that year as did many others.
hey red - below is a close-up of what i believe to be fred's wood bros.' ford during his brief , unsuccessful career of farming the dirt and sand of riverside in '63 . this , ahhh , "mishap" could and should be overlooked , however , as no one was better on the big tracks than fearless fred .
Marvin got bumped from his #21 at the innaugural running of the Motor Trend 500 in 1963. Lorenzen took his place and Dan Gurney raced the #28. Gurney went on to win the race while Fred rolled Panch's ride. A couple of replicas of Gurney's car have recently been built. By the way, When Gurney first tried his hand at R.I.R. in an H&M stock car he came in from running sporty car lines on the track feeling pretty proud of himself. When Ralph Moody remonstrated him about leaving some time on the track, Gurney told Ralph he was welcome to get in the car and do better. Which is exaclty what Mr. Moody did. He hoped in Gurney's ride and knocked several seconds off of the string back gloved, sporty car driver's best time. The fastest way around R.I.R. in a stock car was to drive it was a stock car and not a dainty little fruit cupper, tiddler car. Gurney learned an important lesson that day. Ralph also showed fred Lorenzen the fast way around a five mile circle at Bonneville in 1962. But that's another story. Many folks have forgotten just what a good driver Ralph Moody was.
I remember in a Hot Rod Mag story a photo of the 21 on it's top. Lorenzen was my hero in the sixties. I built a model of his '63 and gave it to him (actually I gave it to Herb Nab to give to him). When I later got into racing photography I had my photo made with Freddy in the press building at Atlanta when he came back as Grand Marshall. I've got to find that photo and scan it. Here are a few photos of Lorenzen in Atlanta: Excuse the first three they were taken by a 15 year old (me) with a $2 camera. Victory lane '64 ATL.-500 After wrecking in '65-In Garage in '64 Dixie 400 and a composite of the replica displayed in victory lane when he was Grand Marshal.
I always liked the way that they routed the exhaust through the frame and the neat cut outs in the rocker panels.
neat stuff , red . i especially like the model , as i'm a builder myself . very nice work . does the H.A.M.B. have a modelers section ?
just watched the HOF announcment for next year . while i'm disappointed that fireball , fred , and pops , and tim flock and herb thomas didn't make it this year , i'm OK with some of the inductees - tho i question some others . but i'm MOST disappointed with crybaby waltrip's getting in without having to buy a ticket . certainly his numbers are impressive enough to get him in....eventually . but there are several more deserving than " ol' dee dubya" for now . so i'm just wondering....if i campaign hard ; whine and cry constantly ; and kiss enough butts ... i wonder if I might get in ...without having to buy a ticket . DARN ! I CAN'T STAND THAT GUY !!!! jack
I agree with you Jack. Waltrip is certainly a shoe-in but there are many who led the way before him that should go in first.
The HoF is a joke...and...it is increasingly obvious that it is a commercial failure. Richie Evans before Fred Lorenzen, Fireball Roberts, Curtis Turner, Joe Weatherly...really? REALLY? . Why not Danica and why not now is what I say? If spinning the turn stiles at the HoF is really what it is all about...why not put her in today? Maybe the HoF can have an American Pickers/Danica double episode? You know, the HoF can hire the boys from corn country to try and find anyone one who wants to step foot inside of the place and to look for some driving skill for the wee lassie at the same time. And...then combine it with a Texas chain saw match between the Undertaker and five sub-5'8" modern cup drivers in a tag team. Now that would really pick up the gate.
No one knows those guys anymore. Very few know anything about what is being posted in this history discussion here. It's all gone. And all in one generations passing. ! There is nothing that even closely resembles auto racing left in this present day............... ! Tom S. in Tn.
Back to H-M history? Here are a couple of cars my friend Tom has restored: A Bud Moore built Trans-Am car - the authentic Follmer race car. The Holman-Moody one race only Torino (built for Riverside).
Sorry you're not "feelin' it" for Richie Evans. 9 Championships...8-in-a-row...and killed in his prime at Martinsville before accomplishing God-knows-what-else. One other thing...he won more NASCAR-sanctioned races than anyone...anyone. Even the King. "Small pond"? Cook (a fellow nominee), the Bodines, Parks, Tomaino and on and on... Think about those stats...and NOW the door is opened for the Jack Ingrams and others. It's the NASCAR Hall of Fame, not the Strictly Stock/Grand National/Winston Cup/NexTel Cup/Sprint Cup Hall of Fame. Clay Earles. T.Wayne (THE guy that really changed "NASCAR", for better or worse). Pops. Fireball. Freddie. Their time is nigh. BTW, no bigger Freddie Fan exists than me. Congrats to all who made it! And cudos to those soon-to-come... Back to H-M. Fabulous thread, Frank!
Modifieds...yawn. Fireball and Joe (H&M drivers back in the day, natch) died for the sport. But they haven't done much for Brian France lately. So Boggity boy and a minor leaguer are honored..over them. Exactly how many minor leaguers who never made it in the majors are enshrined in Cooperstown? Ralph Moody not even nominated...really? Joke. Credibility is exceedingly hard to get back once frittered away. As to the real greats who got passed over having "their" time...when that time comes, no one may actually care. The HoF has precious little foot traffic now. There are no guarantees for tomorrow. Bone headed, American Idol type induction decisions aren't adding to the Hall's life expectancy. Just sayin'
All those who deserve to be in the HOF will never make it in our lifetime. Many, many who deserve it will NEVER. I do believe many H&M employees will make it in the next 5 years. Personally, I don't have a problem with Richie Evans being inducted. He is the best the class ever had. Jack Ingram too. It is the NASCAR HOF. But you make a good point John. There are no baseball HOF members who never made it out of the minors no matter how good they were. With the money NASCAR has made over the last 3 decades it is sinful they did not start a HOF in Daytona 25 years ago. There would already be 125 members including most of the deserving.
just my opinion , but nascar should've built on the joe weatherly museum in darlington YEARS ago . it was joe who was telling anyone who would listen that the old cars had to be saved while they were still around . so shortly after his death someone got the ball rolling and built the museum . but instead of building on that great start , someone dropped the ball , and now i have no idea if that building is still standing . if big bill , jr, and little brian had continued to build and add to the weatherly museum , we would have had most of the greats already enshrined these 46 years later . as to ritchie , i'm not sure he was the all-time greatest mod driver , either . does anyone remember ray hendrick ? how about bob and fonty flock ? and pops , joe , and fireball were also great in the coupes - in fact , i believe joe was nascar mod champ once or twice before he moved to the GNs - not to mention an AMA motorcycle champ . and what about the great red farmer [ 3 time mod and LMS champ ] , who might still be racing at about 80 years of age [ he WAS still racing - and doing very well - at age 75 !! ] . those were the days when you had to travel all over the country to get points - and on both dirt and pavement . does anyone remember frankie schneider ? frankie was born in 1926 in lambertville , n.j. , in 1926 . he started racing in 1947 at flemington , and never worked at anything else , other than a little farming , for the rest of his life [he's still living] . he may very well have been the first stock car driver to make a living at it . how good was he ? well , he was nascar's 1952 mod champ . he also somehow acquired the nickname "mr. modified" . is that all ? well , no . he also won a GN race in 1958 - and HE may still racing , also . i know he entered a mod race about 5 years ago ! he was the best there was at what he did in the '50's and '60's . will he ever get in the HOF ? no - you see , he had a falling out with big bill in the '50's , so his chances are slim to none . my point is that there were LOTS of great mod drivers , but , like john said , they don't put AAA ball players in cooperstown . and how can they even THINK about putting guys like childress , hendrick , and especially T. Wayne in ANYtime soon ? helton was talking about how important history is to nascar . well , WHO'S history ? and isn't it amazing how brian can make the words come out of helton's mouth , but you never see brian's lips move * ? how does he do that ? adding 5 inductees per year is ridiculous , as not only will most of the greats not live to see themselves honored , but many of us won't live to see much , either . and shouldn't leonard have been inducted alongside glen ? but helton said they honor individuals , not groups or teams . so does that mean ralph moody will never get in , as they can't run him in with holman ? holman moody was , IM not-so HO , the greatest team nascar ever saw . i , personally , think moody should go in by himself , as he was the "sporting" end of HM , while holman took care of the business end .. but i doubt brian is going to ask for my opinion . i'm tired , and i know my sentences are poorly constructed , but i'm just trying to get my overly opinionated ideas across . i hope i've done that , whether anyone agrees with me or not . so here's my bottom line : WE all know [ or most of us do ] WHO the real greats are / were . WE also know that brian and his little racing club are a joke . there's no more justice in nascar than there is in the rest of the world . no one knows if the greats who have passed on know what's going on in our world . if they don't , it can't matter to them . if they do know , then they already know where they belong . for those who are still with us [ fred , cotton , et al ] , THEY know where they belong , and hopefully they're reading some of our words and know that WE know they're already hall of famers . does anyone understand what i said ....or care ? i'm going to bed . say good night , gracie .
* just a quick couple of notes / pix before gracie and i go to bed . the first shows our hero , little brian , moving his lips as he reads his comic books . note the circled book on his desk . i've been told that this pic is authentic - that it hasn't been photo-shopped . the photo , below , catches our hero , little brian , in a very proud moment . he was awakened in the middle of the night when his tech inspectors caught jack roush with a ringer....a cheater ford [ i wonder what gave it away ? ] . with no time to put on his make-up , brian rushed to the track so he could pose proudly with their "catch" . personally , i think brian looks better without make-up . okay - i'm still tired .
...but there ARE BHoF members from the "Negro League"...35 to be exact...that never made it to "the show"... Kinda like USAC drivers in a NASCAR HoF? Richie, like Fireball and Joe and sadly many more, "died for the sport" too...well before his career would have peaked. Back on topic...
Richie Evans was one of the greats of the sport of racing and deserves to be recognized for his achievements. If the NASCAR HOF is that and not the NASCAR Stock Car HOF then he deserves to be inducted. I think they should induct a certain number from each division each year. Say five each from Stocks, Sportsman (as they used to be called) and Modifieds. That would be fair. If you will remember most of the early drivers in the "strictly stock" division were old modified/coupe/sedan races. There are many early drivers that should be inducted before the likes of Rick Hendrick, Roush and Penske are even considered. The Curtis Turners, Joe Weatherlys, the Flocks and such should not be by passed just to put in the later drivers. May be there should be something like two from each decade or era inducted. I have no problem with a Waltrip along with a Lorenzen and Tim Flock and/or a Yarborough with Turner and Bob Welborn or Frand Mundy ,Buddy Baker with a Buck Baker and Red Byron, and so on. But then again I have about given up on NASCAR anyway. If they will go back to racing at North Wilkesboro and tracks like that I will start going again. This is like putting the Swindles in the Sprint Car HOF (if there is one) and not including Jan Opperman.
NOT INDUCTED into the NASCAR Hall of Fame 2012: Driver/ Grand National StockCar Wins (The "Majors") Herb Thomas 48 (2 Championships) Buck Baker 46 (2 championships) Tim Flock 39 (2 championships) Cotton Owens 38 (owner) (1 championship) Cotton Owens 9 (driver) Fireball Roberts 33 Fred Lorenzen 26 Joe Weatherly 25 (2 championships) Benny Parsons 21 (1 championship) Curtis Turner 17 INDUCTED in the NASCAR Hall of Fame 2012 Driver/Grand National StockCar Wins (The "Majors") Richie Evans 0 (0 championships) Joke....
Let's get back to Holman Moody history. If some of us here want to discuss modern racing, modern NASCAR and HOF inductees why not start a H.A.M.B. thread on the subject? I'm for leaving the brand bashing, endless debates over who likes who and who was the best, and name calling silliness out of this thread. This thread started out great Frank, but I'm sorry to say I only look at the pictures lately for the history. I just spent my two cents ... I don't have any more to spend on debating the issue. Joel
Joel, Please contribute: How many drivers on the non-inducted HoF list drove H&M built Stock Cars at least once in their careers? (just in case you are erroneously suggesting this aspect of this thread is somehow not related to Holman Moody). As Jack suggested, it is really impossible to separate Holman Moody from the early success of stock car racing...and that's the success of both the series (and, in particular, the premier Grand National Division) and the drivers. Now that we have your two cents, please add your knowledge. And speaking of real silliness...it is beyond silly that the HoF has not yet seen fit to even nominate either Ralph Moody or John Holman. (my two cents, natch). Jack, you chime in if Joel gets bogged down.
I am with you Joel. I have my opinion but don't bash anything or anybody. In the future you can express who you think should be in the HOF or who was a great driver-mechanic-owner-truck driver-sweeper etc but this is NOT the place to vent who should NOT be in the HOF or WASN'T/ISN'T a great driver-mechanic.........This is not my 2c. It's the HAMB policy. We have seen threads get too dramatic and closed. I am absolutely sure every one of you don't want to see that happen to this.
ahhh , a tag team match , huh frank ? joel and i have debated just about everything over the years . we've never agreed on much ... joel even insists that naval lint is better than army lint ! but what's wrong with complaining about nascar ? that's been a national pastime for as long as i can remember . and brand bashing ? if i couldn't "bash" general motors [ and occasionally mopar - tho not so much ] i'd probably strain a muscle - or something . it's been my life's work ... my calling , if you will [ even if you won't] . but isn't that what makes us fans ? we pull for one team [ or individual] or another ; that's what made nascar popular in the first place . and as far as discussing holman moody history , isn't that what we've been doing ? but maybe we do need to get off this HOF deal . we're certainly not going to change anything .... certainly not nascar . so let me see if i can post some pix and we can talk about better times ... times that are long since gone . darn , i feel old !!
The Jalopy Journal
