i was looking thru some books and found some interesting photos . below is a pic of , well , who DOESN'T know who they are ? but does anyone recognize the car ? it's fred's one race - one victory 1962 starlift at atlanta . notice the quarter windows ? they never did fit the fastback roof , so they raced this way . when HM took the car to bonneville , they closed that opening with aluminum spacers . interesting thing about the cars - they were SUPPOSED to be convertibles with an add on hardtop for the atlanta 500 . however , they actually started out as sedans or hardtops for grand national competition , but had the roofs removed [ as was everyone elses ] so they could race as "convertibles" at the rebel 300 [ which was the last of the convertible races ] . now pay attention , as this is getting involved . the "starlift" was supposed to be more or less a "kit" , where you took a convertible and bolted on a fastback hardtop roof . the atlanta 500 was a GN race - meant for hardtop / sedans , but here comes ford with a convertible [ tho originally a HT/sedan ] and wants to enter it as a hardtop/sedan with the addition of a bolt on roof . all was okay until uncle ralph's henrys showed some speed , and threatened [ brace yourself , joel - here comes my G-rand M-a bashing ] the very fast and extremely illegal factory [ "unofficially" , of course ] native americans [ i'm trying to be oh so politically correct ] . with much complaining from the competition , big bill finally ruled that these ford hardtops , nee convertibles , nee hardtops would be legal for one race only . HOWEVER , since they were supposed to be "convertibles" , big bill demanded that they have convertible crossmembers welded into the starlifts' frames . so godfather ralph sent the wood brothers to prowl the local junk yards for ford convertibles so their frames could be torched . so the moral of this story is ... oh , i don't know . fred won the race , beating banjo's "native" when the rains came , and ford folks lived happily ever after - or at least until the end of the day , when the starlifts became illegal again . we had talked about the "zippertops" earlier . for those who may just be "tuning in " , a "zippertop" was a hardtop with the roof removed . the roof could be bolted back on , however , allowing the car to enter convertible or GN [ hardtop] races . nascar had a convertible division from 1956 thru 1959 , but continued to run convertibles at the rebel 300 thru 1962 . "zips" were first allowed for the 1958 season . holman moody was formed in june , 1957 , but had raced the '57 fords left over from FoMoCo's factory involvement thru the rest of that season . for 1958 , however , they built new 1958 fords . there is some debate as to whether or not these fords [ one for little joe and one for pops] were receiving any backdoor help from dearborn . if they were , it couldn't have been much , as the naive robert mac namara , ford's pres. , had pretty well sealed those doors tight . openly , however , HM was getting some help from a group of enlightened carolina ford dealers , who weren't happy sitting on the sidelines [ out of racing] while watching Grand Ma flaunting the anti-racing ruling . 1958 was the year that ford first offered the FE family of engines , starting at 332 and 352 cu. in. [ these engines eventually morfed into the legendary 427 in 1963 ] . the black car pictured was the one that curtis turner had just driven to victory in saturday's convertible race at daytona during speedweeks . the photo is interesting because it's the only one i've ever seen showing a crew [ any crew ]removing or adding the roof . this is the HM crew , of course , installing the roof in preparation for the next day's GN race . i described this race in a previous post . i have the race on tape , and suffice to say , it's oneof the very best and most thrilling races i've ever seen . pops came from about a mile behind paul goldsmith's smokey built and blatantly factory backed big indian to finish 6 car lengths behind , despite a very costly [ and not of his making ] spin near the end . joel and i had a bit of a disagreement on this issue , also . this car is one of my favorites . of the 4 major races in 1958 , this car won the daytona convertible race , and almost won the GN race the next day . then it easily won at darlington's second annual rebel 300 convertible race . it did drop out of the southern 500 with engine failure , but not before leading over 120 laps . curtis did win some other races that year - i'm assuming with this same car .
genuine jack, Thanks for those great photos. As I have said Lorenzen was my boyhood hero and I have a son named Curtis Turner.
Jack, You sure do come up with some interesting and informative stuff. I have never seen a picture of the '58 with the top being installed.
found this ad in the current issue of "auto week" . don't know whether it's true or not , but the ad makes it sound like HM is doing development work for ford motor co. note the pic of david's '68 torino in the background .
DR. CRAFT ---- hi john - i was just looking at the slide show about fred that you presented over on randy's site - or rather , i was trying to . i was only able to see a few pix because of this brian franceing computer of mine . however , i'm wondering why we never see or hear anything about fred's wife . has she passed on or are they seperated ? i'm not trying to get into their personal lives - i was just wondering . in any case , it's great to see that fred's kids are looking after him . i don't see that much anymore . jack
hi red - i guess all ford fans in the sixties were freddie fans - even some "un-ford" fans . he was great to watch , and he sure gave richard petty fits . my ex-wife and i had pretty much decided that if we had a son his middle name was going to be "pops" .... - no - just kidding . but we had decided on "curtis" for a middle name . unfortunately , i never had any kids . jack i was just thinking - tho we didn't have KIDS , we did have "kids" . we had a parakeet named "edsel" - meanest bird i ever saw . he's pictured below wearing his pith helmet . he got the idea from watching old southern 500 films with me and seeing most of the crews wearing pith helmets . below are 2 pix of our dog "pete" . as opposed to edsel , pete was prob. the friendliest dog i've ever known . EVERYONE liked pete . he's shown wearing my old , well worn goodyear motorsports club hat [ with a "happiness is a V8 ford" button ] . pete looked better in a hat than any other dog i've seen wearing a hat [ and i haven't seen many ] i couldn't get pete to smile for the pic , as he'd just seen earnhardt run one of our ford guys into the fence . this last pic shows pete hatless and smiling
I saw some pics when I was at H/M last month. Looks like it involves the Focus and Fiesta and?.....handling packages and other mods if I remember correctly. Hey maybe a new and younger generation of H/M fans.
Wow, I see a lot of potential for this. First, get rid of the clown and the roll bar/spoiler as well as the giant plastic spark plug, then lengthen it just a little bit and move the rear wheel wells back towards the tail lights some, put some doors back on, and a windshield frame that's reminiscent of a Porsche speedster frame, roadster fold-down top, Cobra seats, wheels (tires don't need to be so stoopid wide) and steering wheel, paint it gloss black, hell yeah. A Falcon speedster... <!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
Here's a Fermier Brothers photo from Daytona 1966. I don't know any history on this picture itself so let's see if anyone can offer some good racing information on it. It is a copy from a 35mm original hence the fuzziness ... my apologies for that. Joel
joel , i believe that's from 1967 , as very few teams had fairlanes in late '66 . i don't believe that's daytona , either . i could be wrong , but i think i see gordon johncock's name on the door of junior's fairlane . i know he drove a few times for junior in '67 , and i believe he drove in the fall race at charlotte , so i'm going to guess that's charlotte .
hey frank - i just noticed that i've been "promoted" [ or is that DEmoted ? ] to "grenade inspector" . what the heck is a grenade inspector...and do i really WANT this title ?
hi frank .... me again . i want to suggest that we expand this thread just a wee bit to include depaolo engineering and bill stroppe & associates . depaolo was the immediate ancestor or forerunner of HM , while bill stroppe was widely considered to be "holman moody - west" ...and in fact , he was partnered with HM for a time [ "holman moody stroppe" ] . so if this is okay with you , it'll open up a lot more photo and info possibilities . so let me start with this photo : does anyone know who these two gents are / were ? most of you will know the guy on the left . he was largely a flash-in-the-pan , and for some reason they called him "fireball" . of course i'm kidding - that's mr. roberts , of course . but i'll bet very few know the guy on the right , and why he was a significant player in the early days of nascar . anyone know ? tick tick tick ......ding . time's up . that's buddy schuman . buddy was a notorious bootlegger - he even served time on a chain gang . he was also a gifted driver and mechanic in the early nascar modified and GN days . so what's so significant about that ? buddy schuman was ford's first nascar crew chief [ prob. called "chief mechanic" in those days ] , and almost pulled off a miracle in 1955 . when ford belatedly decided to jump into GN racing late in the 1955 season [ because they wanted to "knock the checkered flags out of chevrolet's racing ads" ] , someone in the know suggested buddy would be just the guy to get the ford team into victory lane . the whole deal was organized under pete depaolo [ 1925 indy winner ] ; a carolina ford dealer [schwam ford ] was chosen to enter the cars ; and just by lucky chance someone approached joe weatherly to drive one of the cars . joe immediately suggested that his pal curtis turner could get the job done in the other car , and the rest is history - tho not everyone knows that history . ford had decided late in the season that they wanted to enter the southern 500 , which was about a month away . the ford engineers THOUGHT they knew how to make a car go fast , but buddy KNEW how to do it . the problem was convincing the ford folks , and getting them to do what he knew had to be done . the 2 cars - painted purple and called "schwam's wild hogs" - made the race and qualified well . the chevys did not present much of a threat - not even smoky's herb thomas driven slug . no , the real competition would come from carl keikieffer's [sp.? - i'm too lazy to look up the spelling right now ] all conquering chrysler 300s - powered by 331 [ i believe] cube hemis sucking on 2 - 4 barrel carburetors . these cars HONKED ! and the little fords ? they had a 292 c.i. y-block with a single 4 bbl . but they also had 2 drivers who possessed obscenely heavy right feet ! it wasn't long before the fords were running up front . pops led for a while , but , while lighting a cigarette under caution , he bumped another car and exited the race with tie rod failure . little joe took over the lead . films show him passing whenever and whereever he wanted...on the banks ; on the apron ; whereever he came upon a car that needed passing . herb thomas' smoker - i mean , smokey built shaky was about a half lap behind . the only time herb took over the lead was when joe pitted , but his time on the point was limited , as weatherly quickly - and i mean QUICKLY - ran him down . joe had another half lap lead with about 50 miles to go when he blew a tire and crashed out of the race . he actually apologized to schuman , as he knew buddy had put his heart and soul into this push for victory . herb thomas cruised to the win , as there was no competition left . then chevy's ad men went to work , extolling the virtues of their "hot one" . buddy and the ford team finished the last remaining races of the season , and began making plans for next year . 1956 never came for buddy schuman , however . he died in dec. , 1955 from asphixiation when he fell asleep while smoking in bed . pops won the 1956 southern 500 going away in a purple and white ford "wild hog" . the "hot ones" were nowhere in sight . does anyone want to bet that brian france has never heard of buddy schuman ?
For many years there was a Buddy Schuman Memorial Race here in the Carolinas, Bowman Gray Stadium I believe, but I didn't know anything about him Jack. I always took for granted he was an early driver killed in a race. Thanks for the history lesson.....again. DePaolo/Stroppe did have HM ties and is welcome here. Congratulations Grenade Inspector. I don't know for sure but I believe that promotion comes with a certain number of posts.
i think this is a really neat photo , as you didn't see much color in the '50's. it's a little bit fuzzy , but one might guess who's drivivg the lead car . that's ol' curtis , himself , driving with his usual flair . that's joe in the second car , whom i believe was just passed for the lead . this would've been early in the race , and just after exiting the north turn . this was nascar's very first convertible race - daytona speedweeks - 1956 . france wanted to start a second division , so he merged nascar with an organization already running convertibles . that organization was called S.A.F.E . - which stood for - honest native american - "Society of Autosports , Fellowship , and Education" ! sounds like they drank tea [ with their little finger sticking out ] and nibbled on lady fingers during pit stops . then here comes ol' pops and joe , swigging C&C and chain smoking camels . "fellowship ? education ? i don't need no stinkin' fellowship & education . i'll give THEM an education !! " ford was jumping into nascar with both feet , and had entered pops and joe as regulars in this new division . fireball was also in a factory ford for this first race , tho he would enter only 2 other convertible races for the rest of the year . ford had assigned him to the GN division . joe sat on the pole in this first race , and led the first 5 laps . then pops took over and won going away . this photo prob. shows curtis passing joe for the only lead change of the race . fireball finished second , with joe exiting with water pump failure . herb thomas' smokey built "hot one" [ it's to laugh ! ] finished 3rd . curtis and joe dominated the division. of the 47 races held that year , pops won 22 [ setting a nascar record that stood until 1967 ] . joe won 4 . so turner won the championship , right ? well , no . bob welborn , driving a shakey , took the crown . welborn won 3 times . same ol' nascar .
the above is referring to fred's starlift . ray , i really don't know , but i'd guess it went the way of most "used" race cars - cannibalized for parts to be used on next year's race car OR sold and used up in some minor league . but there's a little bit of a story here , if you'll bear with me - tho it really doesn't go anywhere . back around 1980 i read somewhere about this guy who's "friend" had located this car in some barn or garage somewhere , and offered to buy it for him . there weren't many more details , so i decided to write to this guy to find out what happened . now don't forget - things were very different 30 years ago . very few people were restoring or recreating old race cars back then . they were just old race cars , and there wasn't much you could do with them . anyway , this fellow answered my inquiry , and told me a story and sad commentary on "friendship" . this "good friend" said it would take a few hundred dollars to buy the car [ dirt cheap even then , as the car was reportedly in "as raced" condition , and in fairly good and complete shape ] . so he sends his "friend" the money ....... and that was the last time he ever saw or heard from his "friend" or about the car . apparently the whole thing was a scam , and the car never existed . shortly after this , someone asked about this car in a long gone magazine called "speedway fords and mercurys" . the story was still fresh in my mind , so i wrote a letter to the mag relating , basically, the same story i just told you - only with a bit more detail , as , like i said , it was still fresh in my mind . the mag was very small - almost a pamphlet - and i guess they were desperate for articles and material , as they printed my letter as a feature . after seeing your question about this car , i looked for the mag so i could get the details right , but i couldn't find it . it's not lost ; i still have it - as well as the letter from this fellow who told me this story in the first place - as i never throw anything away . but when, or if , i come upon it again is anybody's guess , so i decided to tell you the story as best as i can remember it - even tho it doesn't go anywhere . but again , my best guess is that the car is probably long gone .
I saw this man at the SAAC (shelby american auto. club) his name is Lee Holman, Is it the owner of Holman Moody Thank Alain H
Hell afire this brings back memories. I can hear that roar and feel that thunder right now. Tom S. in Tn.
hey tom , ya GOTTA replace that mopar lump in your avatar with a Cammer , Boss , Wedge , or some form of dearborn iron !
GenuineJack: Thats a great picture of Fireball & Buddy...if you look on the car ,it's partially obscured ,but it's lettered " Shuman & Thompson" which was Willie Thompson . Willie was the father of Kenny Thompson , who both eventually worked for Holman & Moody. Kenny is an extremely talented fabricator and has a shop near Denver NC . Stan
hi stan - i did see that , but thought the thompson referred to was speedy thompson . so anyway , there's ANOTHER connection to holman moody . kinda like the mafia , HM had their fingers in everything ! .....but in a good way
i was just finishing the latest issue of "auto week" [boring mag , but i got a free sub , so i look thru it] when i came to the last page , where they list funny or interesting news tid bits . here's what i found : and joel complains about MY "brand bashing" ! ... i wonder which one was the ford guy
nice nusence artical why would you get in a heated fight over Ford & Chevy its who is driving & who is building
i wonder how many here know who drove this car ? i covered the driver's name with a piece of paper - not that it could be seen very well . frank is giving a $100.00 prize * to the first correct answer - ahhh - ----probably not . but you can be the first on your block to say " i identified the mystery driver - but frank wouldn't pay up ! " such a deal !! i'll remove the piece of paper in a day or two , and tell you a story about this "MYSTERY DRIVER" . oh , and dr. craft ? you probably know who this driver is , so i'll have to disqualify you before we get started . i'm pretty sure frank's not going to pay up , anyway . in the meantime , i thought i'd show one of my favorite "phunny photos" . i hope you can read the caption . if you know anything at all about curtis turner , the photo and caption will need no further explanation . * DISCLAIMER - as i am a notorious tease and well known leg puller, i cannot and will not be held responsible for anything i say in any context whatsoever . please close cover before striking .
I have been reading this thread again and was thinking of my visit to H&M last april ,Jimmy Tucker was talking about horse-power and how they turned up with a S.O.C powered car and officials said ok boys enough is enough so they cracked it and didn,t race for a year.Back in OZ I mention that I visited, H&M young guys say who and old guys get a hard-on.
...... well , ahh ....ummm....when you get to be an old guy ....i guess...whatever it takes ....... i think those guys are called Hol-Mood-sexuals . Dr. craft - is that the correct medical term ?
Great info and pics! Been a race fan for 48 of my almost 52 years (so I have some definite opinions on racing, NAPCAR, and Mr. Evans but since I'm the new guy I'll keep those opinions to myself....for now). #22 was usually Fireball but I can't help but think the "mystery driver" is Mr. Moody as I've seen a pictures of him in the 22 in '57. I suspect that picture was taken at Milwaukee the day Moody and Ruttman lapped the field. A buddy and I had a deal made to buy a Holman and Moody former USAC car in '77. We scraped up the money, borrowed a hauler and went to pick it up. The SOB that had it sold it out from under us after we had an agreement. He was too chicken to tell us. He had his wife answer the door.
Back in the late day I did a little dirt track racing. I raced a 6 cylinder late model class. All us Ford guys ran 300 truck engines. Most of us had Offy or Clifford intakes. One guy found a Holman and Moody intake. That intake made a huge difference in performance for him. Up until I saw that intake I wasn't aware that H&M made 6 cylinder parts. The H&M car that was sold out from under us at first glance appeared to have a '65-'72 Ford stub. On closer inspection it was all fabbed, and very high quality. The car had '71-'73 Mustang sheet metal at the time but I think the chassis originally had a Torino body on it when it ran USAC. How about some more pics and stories from the 50's and 60's? I especially liked seeing the pics of their shop. Anyone have more?
The Jalopy Journal
