June 2011 Banger Meet, Any Questions?

Well the drive test is in for the fish carb, amazing night and day difference from the zenith, peelouts on the wet roads while driving in first gear, gravel kicking performance on back roads, it's a pleasure for sure, extremely loud vacuum noise at idle, I'll check the plugs when I get some miles on it, nice thing about bangers, even a thinner head gasket is considered a hop up

 

HeyyCharger-

"do a bit of porting and possibly relieving"

Porting, yes----Relieving, nothing more than a radius in the area where the bore and the combustion chamber intersect. Anything more just lowers compression. The only popular rod engine that benefited from relieving was the flathead Ford V8. The valves were on an angle relative to the bore, which left a hump for the gases to flow over.


Herb

 

Here is the adapter for the '39 - banger:
https://www.clingsaftermarket.com/addtocart.asp?prod=43


The 2x2:

2 - 97's are bigger then two 94's, so the set up your talking about would be a little too much for the engine your building. If you want dual carbs, the 2 - 81's are the way to go. You said you were on a budget so the 81's may be a little too expensive. People have had success running 2-94's and I'm running two 97's now, but I'm running over 7:1 head and a winfield grind cam. If you like to tinker and know how to make 94's work, then that may be your cheapest dual carb set up.

I'm running the FSI electronic ignition and love it, but if you don't want to spend the $300 for one of those, run a stock B distributor until you can afford the FSI unit. The stock be will work just like the FSI unit, but the points will have to be maintained.

The B cam will fit the A block with no modifications, I would suggest that you also use adjustable lifters too. Only use the single lock type lifters, as they have the larger foot like the stock lifters. The double lock adjuster lifters have a smaller foot @ 1" were the single lock lifter has a 1 1/8" foot. That way you are getting all of the cam timing you can get.

If you have access to a lathe, blend the backs of the valves to remove any steps and polish them.

Herb is right, "relieving" the block like the V-8 guys do has no benefit for the banger.
If you know what your doing, porting will realty help. But don't just start hogging out the ports where the intake and exhaust manifolds bolt. Do most of your work in the bowl areas below the valve seat. Just smooth the edges and clean up the flow.

There are good articles about this in Secrets of Speed Volume 4.2 and 4.3


.

 

Crazzz

I had a flow bench for many years..... valves like angles

Siamese ports specially

 

I agree, but they don't like lips and protrusions. Most of the stock valves I've seen have a huge ridge just below the seat surface.

.

 

HeyyCharger- you may also want to look at early holden carbs look like 97s but sit side on on the manifold they have adjustable jets and dont leak

 

Adding to the post on running a 39 tranny in a model a, does one need to add a transmission mount when going to this setup?

 

Thanks a lot for replying guys! A big help. You're all a wealth of knowledge to the H.A.M.B!

I have another newbie question... Does anyone use bigger valves like they do with the Flathead V8's, e.g the 1.6" Chevy valves?

Okay, sure. Thanks.

Thanks a lot Dan.

Where would you suggest is the best place to get these single-lock lifters from?

Also, would I be too demanding on the motor if I was going to run the 7:1 head on an essentially stock motor? What should I be changing or taking into account if I were to run a 7:1 head?

Thanks Rusty.

HC.

 

You have more to think about now
.

 

Hehe. Thanks again!

Regarding the articles you sent me, I'm going to print them off and go through them!

In terms of compression, that was my thinking also. I feel that lifting the comp above 7:1 may begin to give the stock bottom end a hard time (not planning to do any mains/bottom end strengthening work/modifications.... for the time being anyway). So I think following on from what you said, I'll just stick to the 6:1 head.

As you mentioned, I want to be driving this just about everyday with no worries about pushing it a little.

Let you know how I go....

HC.

 

I think everyone knows 'Speed cost money' Please remember not only money but down time unless you've got several back up engines.

Even with the best parts things break. These things broke a lot when they were new.

So you must think ''Is the ear splitting grin worth the pain'' For many of us here IT IS

I am reminded of a friend that upon getting his hopped-up A running sold it because it ''Was a piece of shit overheating and broke all the time'' Well it wasn't a POS. It was just an "old Ford" AND what was reallly needed was an adjustment of the ''Nut behind the wheel''

It seems that many people come here knowing all the buzz words but really not knowing the pain.

I think the best thing about these Banger threads are the number of guys that REALLY know the pain and modify their motors anyway.

 

I think that what you've just expressed is whether an enthusiast/Hot Rodder remains in this hobby/lifestyle for the long run or doesn't feel it deep inside him.

"If you don't get it, you don't get it!".... Right?

HC.

 

Bluto is right.

We like to talk modification, but rarely talk risk.

The more you do the shorter the life.

The way you drive the car can shorten the life of a modified Banger too.
Lugging, mashing the throttle under load or on an up slope, and over revving will shorten the life of even the best built engine.

I do what I do to mine because I can afford to replace my engine. I have many spare parts and engines to play with. I keep the broken parts to remind me of what not to do next time.


.

 

I started at age 14 with a 1934 Plymouth Coupe that my Dad traded two bowling shirts for

Always looked at this, as many here, not as a ''lifestyle'' but life. Not a hobby! My life and my living!

Many times in my life Rodding wasn't looked upon as anything favorable .... we did illegal things.

I sold my '32 roadster because if I brought here I'd need to fit fenders..... I couldn't ruin the car

 

Great observations Bluto !!! You must be feeling better.
Ron

 

Amen to that!

You can't shape this emotion and attitude into someone.... It doesn't get much more pure than that!

HC.

 

Taken from an original Winfield head Advertisement,
The car , a model A roadster was used in the Winfield advertisement for his new head and he stated that all they did was bolt the head on with the down draft carburetor and modify (open) the muffler and the car went 100 MPH over a measured witnessed mile. Other than the head and carburation the rest was stock. That was a Red head 7 to 1 with a BB sized winfield carb and downdraft manifold. He also made the Yellow head with 6 to 1 and a B size down draft. This all came in a Kit originally. The advertisement stated that you couldn't buy just the head, you had to buy the complete settup. ( Old saying,"The tail goes with the hide, sonny")
I'm posting this after reading the mods now required to make a model A go fast!

 

i have a couple of X1509's but I don't think they are XV's have to check!

Who was it that wanted a list of suitable inserts?

 

Tell me about it! Tinker and tune for a year and make 1 run and driver says its idleing funny, correct that and hear a rumbling grumbling noise coming from the engine! Shut it off and park it but it must be fixed for the next event. Bob Kehoe,#4 sprint car, advises pull the body off, may be easier than shoehorning engine out and in. Works for him. I find it not possible for me to do now with my physical limitations but what else to do. It must be repaired! Must be running! This is what you are looking at if you want to compete and win. They do and will break if you run hard. You think you have assembled the best parts correctly but as Bluto said "Even the best parts break"

 

Do any of you guys modify your (A) frames when hopping up your motors? Install a k-member or anything? I'm trying to formulate a game plan for my Vicky. Looking for suggestions and/or pics of modified cross members. Do you weld up the rivets?

 

i havn't modified anything frame wise.
I wouldn't weld up the frame (just my thinking) because i think it would tend to crack because of the lack of "flex" in the connections... but i dont know
you see alot of 32 k members modified to the model a frame, but that is usually when the install a flatty v8
i say plan on running it as is
tk

 

Two things frame-wise you might consider.

Moving the center X member rearward, if you plan on using a modern transmission (to avoid cutting the center of the X member away to clear).

Depending on the body that you plan to use, the following may make for a better fit-

Cutting a small notch in the flanges of the main rails just behind the center X member to pull them together and make them parallel. Redrill the rear X member to accommodate the new rail spacing, and bolt in with grade 8 bolts. Weld the flanges of the main rails with some hi-tensile rod, but never weld X members.

Be aware that a 32 X member means that you have to pull the engine to change the clutch.


Herb

 

If your frame is true and square, I would not do any welding on it. The rivets should be strong enough to handle anything a warmed over banger will ask of it.

I'm going to disagree with Herb on the frame mods. Straighting the frame rails is not needed. Anytime you modify their configuration you will need to make allowances for other things like body mounts, e-brake, etc.

Modifing the center cross member may be needed if you go to a late trans. What trans where you considering?

Ron

 

You really don't have to move the X-member to put the engine in the rear provided you can sit where the engine used to be.... This design, like Dr Porsche's protects the engine from damage by the driver if you hit something head-on and allows for several types of transmission types.

 

Bluto,

Good to see/hear you up-and-around! Check your home email- I'm grabbing lunch with Herb today and had a question for you about an earlier conversation we had!!!

Thanks as always, Bill

 

Walls- I disagree with "youngster"! Most Model A frames are bent and maybe out of square. The rails should be straight. You can bend the frame with a bottle jack, some chain, and an I beam. Check out the Les Andrews book that tells how to do it. The worst area is usually around the steering box hole. Get it straight and square before you start to add crossmembers.

 

I'm not sure yet what trans I'd like to run. I'm gathering ideas to make a solid plan of attack. I do know, I'd like sync'd 2nd and 3rd gear. So maybe a 39. Although, after hearing the consensus in the past few posts about the frame not needing to be welded and have crossmembers added, I might consider a mitchell. Although it would cost a bunch, I wouldn't have to rework the clutch and brake linkage/master cyl. Like I said, I'm gathering thoughts.

Low horsepower aside, wouldn't making the frame sturdier allow for a better ride? That is assuming the suspension is well thought out.

 

I like the T-5 with closed drive adapter.
Full sycros, 5 speeds, and no extra shift lever.

 

It has long been a hot rodding tradition that you box the frame I would not do it on a model t where the engine is part of the frame [stock motor] however with a later model a where the motor is rubber mounted I can see benefits? If not where does this leave float a motor kits?

 

The "straighting" I was refering to is to make the rails paralell to each other. In other words, taking the angle out after the center cross member.

I do agree with modelAsteve. The first thing you want to do to the frame is bring it up to stock dimensions.

On the subject of boxing the rails. True this is an old time honered procedure. The reason this was so benifical is because the wishbone was split and the rear bones where mounted to the frame rails when open drive shafts where installed. If you are running an unsplit wishbone and a closed drive shaft, your suspention pivots on the center line of the chassis. The frame rais are now mearly a way of holding the drive line and body in the correct relationship with each other. Henry used rivets to allow for twisting of the frame. Other wise cracked frames and body panels would have occured much sooner in the life span.

Ron