Is it me or is there a quality control issue for replacement parts? I have been away from the car hobby over the last few years and now that I have returned and have a bitchin 'vert 1950 De Soto I have to wonder..... The sob story: BOTH made in USA - can't blame China this time. 1. New tstat for my 1950 De Soto that didn't work - wasted time, posted help on HAMB, felt stupider than usual that I didn't test before installing. 2. O/T 1961 MG Midget - new cast water outlet ( thermostat housing ), three stud pattern - doesn't fit the new studs that are nicely seated. The NOS housing I have is an original flat top that only fit the "old-style-no-longer- available" low profile tstats. Maybe cooling systems are my Moby Dick .... Are all vintage cars that need parts doomed to poor quality? I ask cause I need to bitch and wonder if I am facing years of frustration as I wrap up the MG and head into the De Soto .... WTF - can we USA folks make shit that works, fits or what need you anymore? Or do I need to get into a machine shop and make my own stuff? Or is it best to spend hours hunting NOS? I am not in a hurry by any means but I'd like to get this car rolling
Aftermarket parts not fitting right isn't a new thing although it may be a lot more common now especially when you have one car that was a bit of and odd ball to start with and the other one cam over on a boat. I'd think that there still should be some good parts sources for the MG though. Maybe not the local parts house but through some of the specialty shops. On the Desoto Thermostat you most likely ran into the manufactures plan for making fewer numbers fit more applications and some don't fit like they think they should. The base diameter might be the same but other factors are different. That is the problem when the business is controlled by the bean counters and bottom liners who's main intent is to put dividends in the stockholders pockets than turning out quality products that actually fit and work.
Flat top that fit only old style low profile tstat New style domed properly fit taller tstat - doesn't seat on studs Flat top fits bolt pattern
Thats nothin - try working with that stuff for a living and having to explain to a car owner that i turned something on a lathe for 4hrs when he can see the part in a catalog for $10! I just ran off a customer that would've spent about 10K with me because he was too stoopid, he actually believed all the shit they say on those tv shows and what is in print in those magazines. He had all the answers, knew every article written on any particular subject. Try to tell an expert like that that a simple thermostat housing didn't work and we had to mill it down or make one from scratch.
I have used Moss parts for years and once in a while a bad part gets through but I have never had a problem that they wouldn't fix. Rather than get on here and show everyone a "bad" product I would have gotten on the phone and called them. The only place I have ever had a problem with on parts MG or otherwise was LMC. They sold me a replacement "OEM" gas tank for my MGB that wouldn't bolt up to the car and didn't have baffles built into it. They wouldn't even talk to me on the phone about it when I called. No returns on fuel tanks was the policy at the time... Not trying to beat up on you, but I always recommend trying to resolve the problem with the vendor first.
Here are my response to these comments from aftermarket mfgs: "Direct bolt on replacement" - after 3-4 hours of working to make it fit "Better then original" - If you don't care about quality parts
Moss just called - thanked me for the heads up because their shel WAS full of these - best they just got in a moss designed replacement that fits right. So sending them a link to this thread accomplished three things 1. Got my question answered by some HAMB ers 2. Kept others from the frustration 3. Gave me a chance to tout their good work. This was never a flame - just a valid simple question with the pictures added for clarity. Happy Fourth we beat the British again !
You know I have seen this in the motorcycle and hotrod after market all my life. It was explained to me that these companies avoid patent infringement by changing design or demensions by a certain percentage so they can copy original parts or other companies parts and sell cheaper. I've found lately that the H.A.M.B. is a good place to find out what's good and what isn't. Just my 2 cents BUCKD
Gotta love those experts.... I own a diesel truck shop ... It blows my mind that every truck driver I see is a expert diesel mechanic also... lol
bought a front end from speedway,,all was going to smooth when i tried to install thecaliber bracket,,,,,it went on but it didn,t turn,,locked up the rite front,,swapped side then the left locked,,,,,made the call,,they had it at my door at 8 in the morning....i explained thet it killed the brake pads that i didn,t buy from them,,no problem,, top of the line in the box..... wasn,t mine nore was it theres fought ,,but they made good and on time,,scream all you want but never a problem with them............vic
This just in Now be nice you guys, there is a lady present. Once again I have high paise for Moss as usual First of all I never was trying to flame moss - read the entire posts and follow ups ... No sign of a cheap shot on my part Secondly I helped you solve your bad run of parts you are welcome Third I have been a buyer for twenty seven years from moss you are great - when I ran Jim Russell at Sears Point I used you folks as well Fourth I started in the parts business in 1983 I have enough dignity to ask a valid question of the HAMB - again read the post - many of those guys are asses and hacks, some are good most are great tinkerers, some are pros. The aftermarket and oe have had their good and bad parts. Fifth yes I ordered the wrong part . Bummer Part of the issue is, I think, that people read e mails not always in the tone and spirit in which they are written. The joys of the modern era. PS I was actually going to machine a spacer to step up the flat top original part I bought 27 yrs ago from Moss to clear the new style thermostats. Sure I'd have to get a couple of gaskets but it would have solved the problem. My goal was to make that and share the idea with Moss to help you move some of those old flat spots. Unfortunately I about took my thumb off in the process, and decided to guys buy the updated - or in this case the wrong part - my bad. I strongly suspect that the aftermarket will survive my question - and some of the rough comments from the HAMB folks. If Ms Lower is so horribly offended perhaps she should avoid the Internet all together - it's a place full of ruffians. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 1, 2011, at 1:50 PM, "Moss Motors Tech Services Dept." <moss.tech@mossmotors.com> wrote: Hello Rob. My name is Blaine Graham. I work here in the Technical Support Department of Moss Motors. Your message below says you own a 1961 Midget. "Car: 1961 MG MIDGET" Congratulations! That was the first of the breed. It came with a 948 CC engine. You bought a thermostat housing for a 1098 CC engine. It's not supposed to fit. You ordered the wrong part. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=76625&SortOrder=102#29 Your post below does a pretty good job of trashing the aftermarket parts industry. I believe that was a pretty cheap shot to take. We here at Moss work very hard to bring the best products available to the market. The "original" manufactures are all out of business, in different hands, or dead. Complaining does nothing constructive. If we didn't go to bat for you, you would have no part at all. Instead of trashing us, you might consider rethinking your position. Ms. Lower tried hard to satisfy you. Our catalog team and our web page team both made the application of this part clear. Perhaps you will send a quick note of apology to Ms. Lower and amend your web post. If you did not install the part, please feel free to return it. If I've misunderstood something, please let me know. Blaine Graham Tech Services Moss Motors, LTD. / Jackson Racing 805.679.7237 grahamb@mossmotors.com Please use the REPLY function when responding to an email received from me. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer's responsibility. This Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. From: Jennifer Lower [mailto:lowerj@mossmotors.com] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 12:24 PM To: Moss Tech Cc: Jennifer Lower; Michael Grant Subject: FW: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Can we assist this person before he sends the parts back? Part #460-855 HOUSING, THERMOSTAT Cust#7-576990 ROB KLYVER Inv#5-3577877 Car: 1961 MG MIDGET Thanks. Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:38 AM To: Moss Customer Service Dept. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) I called today and was sent to a tech # And noone answers - here is a link with some photos http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603667 I can modify it if necessary but it this is a parts run problem you guys need to know Sent from my iPhone On Jul 1, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Moss Customer Service Dept." <moss.customerservice@mossmotors.com> wrote: You can send it back but you need to include all the information or we might exchange it for the same item. I recommend you include the information below and request that tech service contact you about the exchange order. Regards Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:43 PM To: Moss Customer Service Dept. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Sorry The three bolt pattern is either cast or machined wrong . The studs are new, block is straight and the new old flat top style fits well but there are no thermostats available - I bought that one in about 1995- a slow project as you can tell This new higher one will not fit over the studs - shall I return for exchange ? Sent from my iPhone On Jun 30, 2011, at 1:09 PM, "Moss Customer Service Dept." <moss.customerservice@mossmotors.com> wrote: This is not enough information. Please contact the sales department by phone with all the information about your engine and vehicle, and we can figure out what the problem is. Regards, Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com -----Original Message----- From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:23 PM To: Moss Motors Ltd. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Got it - damn thing don't fit Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:30 PM, "Moss Motors Ltd." <CustomerService@mossmotors.com> wrote: > Dear ROB KLYVER Thank You for Shopping with Moss Motors, Ltd. Your Order has been shipped from Goleta. CA. > > If we can be of further assistance please email mailtorder@mossmotors.com or call us at 1-800-667-7872 > >
First of all I never was trying to flame moss - read the entire posts and follow ups ... No sign of a cheap shot on my part Secondly I helped you solve your bad run of parts you are welcome Third I have been a buyer for twenty seven years from moss you are great - when I ran Jim Russell at Sears Point I used you folks as well Fourth I started in the parts business in 1983 I have enough dignity to ask a valid question of the HAMB - again read the post - many of those guys are asses and hacks, some are good most are great tinkerers, some are pros. The aftermarket and oe have had their good and bad parts. Fifth yes I ordered the wrong part . Bummer Part of the issue is, I think, that people read e mails not always in the tone and spirit in which they are written. The joys of the modern era. PS I was actually going to machine a spacer to step up the flat top original part I bought 27 yrs ago from Moss to clear the new style thermostats. Sure I'd have to get a couple of gaskets but it would have solved the problem. My goal was to make that and share the idea with Moss to help you move some of those old flat tops. Unfortunately I about took my thumb off in the process, and decided to buy the updated - or in this case the wrong part - my bad. I strongly suspect that the aftermarket will survive my question - and some of the rough comments from the HAMB folks. If Ms Lower is so horribly offended perhaps she should avoid the Internet all together - it's a place full of ruffians. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 1, 2011, at 1:50 PM, "Moss Motors Tech Services Dept." <moss.tech@mossmotors.com> wrote: Hello Rob. My name is Blaine Graham. I work here in the Technical Support Department of Moss Motors. Your message below says you own a 1961 Midget. "Car: 1961 MG MIDGET" Congratulations! That was the first of the breed. It came with a 948 CC engine. You bought a thermostat housing for a 1098 CC engine. It's not supposed to fit. You ordered the wrong part. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=76625&SortOrder=102#29 Your post below does a pretty good job of trashing the aftermarket parts industry. I believe that was a pretty cheap shot to take. We here at Moss work very hard to bring the best products available to the market. The "original" manufactures are all out of business, in different hands, or dead. Complaining does nothing constructive. If we didn't go to bat for you, you would have no part at all. Instead of trashing us, you might consider rethinking your position. Ms. Lower tried hard to satisfy you. Our catalog team and our web page team both made the application of this part clear. Perhaps you will send a quick note of apology to Ms. Lower and amend your web post. If you did not install the part, please feel free to return it. If I've misunderstood something, please let me know. Blaine Graham Tech Services Moss Motors, LTD. / Jackson Racing 805.679.7237 grahamb@mossmotors.com Please use the REPLY function when responding to an email received from me. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer's responsibility. This Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. From: Jennifer Lower [mailto:lowerj@mossmotors.com] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 12:24 PM To: Moss Tech Cc: Jennifer Lower; Michael Grant Subject: FW: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Can we assist this person before he sends the parts back? Part #460-855 HOUSING, THERMOSTAT Cust#7-576990 ROB KLYVER Inv#5-3577877 Car: 1961 MG MIDGET Thanks. Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:38 AM To: Moss Customer Service Dept. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) I called today and was sent to a tech # And noone answers - here is a link with some photos http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603667 I can modify it if necessary but it this is a parts run problem you guys need to know Sent from my iPhone On Jul 1, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Moss Customer Service Dept." <moss.customerservice@mossmotors.com> wrote: You can send it back but you need to include all the information or we might exchange it for the same item. I recommend you include the information below and request that tech service contact you about the exchange order. Regards Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:43 PM To: Moss Customer Service Dept. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Sorry The three bolt pattern is either cast or machined wrong . The studs are new, block is straight and the new old flat top style fits well but there are no thermostats available - I bought that one in about 1995- a slow project as you can tell This new higher one will not fit over the studs - shall I return for exchange ? Sent from my iPhone On Jun 30, 2011, at 1:09 PM, "Moss Customer Service Dept." <moss.customerservice@mossmotors.com> wrote: This is not enough information. Please contact the sales department by phone with all the information about your engine and vehicle, and we can figure out what the problem is. Regards, Jennifer Lower Customer Service Moss Motors, Ltd. 440 Rutherford Street Goleta, CA 93117 (800) 235-6954 ext 3011 (805) 679-7011 (Direct line) lowerj@mossmotors.com -----Original Message----- From: Klyvermg [mailto:Klyvermg@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:23 PM To: Moss Motors Ltd. Subject: Re: Your order from Moss Motors has shipped (Req. #569347) Got it - damn thing don't fit Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:30 PM, "Moss Motors Ltd." <CustomerService@mossmotors.com> wrote: > Dear ROB KLYVER Thank You for Shopping with Moss Motors, Ltd. Your Order has been shipped from Goleta. CA. Attached is a PDF copy of your invoice which shows what was shipped. > > Order No.-------------2-2768604 > Invoice No.-----------5-3577877 > Order Date------------06/27/11 > Shipping Date---------06/27/11 > Shipping Method---------- > > Tracking No.----------9101008339129111280814 > > > > If we can be of further assistance please email mailtorder@mossmotors.com or call us at 1-800-667-7872 >
Well SOME of these Made in USA parts are not... stickers are cheap. Even when made here most of these parts are made in small quantities in small foundries, machine shops and backyard shops. Quality control is a crap shoot at best. The best you can do is bite the bullet and make it fit... drilling, grinding and hammering if needed. Just another challenge of owning old cars... I gave up buying from Moss and TRF when fixing my old TR's... I'd sooner repair a 60 year old part than buy new...
Well SOME of these Made in USA parts are not... stickers are cheap. Even when made here most of these parts are made in small quantities in small foundries, machine shops and backyard shops. Quality control is a crap shoot at best. The best you can do is bite the bullet and make it fit... drilling, grinding and hammering if needed. Just another challenge of owning old cars... I gave up buying from Moss and TRF when fixing my old TR's... I'd sooner repair a 60 year old part than buy new...
I think the moss folks are providing a valued service old car support - I'm just wondering about all aftermarket - in general and I guess I ordered wrong ... So far I suspect nos hunting is my best bet as I head into DeSoto land :0)
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