History Auto racing 1894-1942

I would wish that someone would do a definitive study on the origins of all of the various valve train successes of the early OHC cars. Borgeson's Twin Cam book would be a good starting point but I believe there is a whole buch that has not been written and I do not believe that the Charletans pulled out a clean sheet of paper and just drew up what OHC originality was floating around in their minds. If you look at the Lion-Peugeots you may find that the engineers dealing with the voiturettes knew what they were doing as well and you may even stumble on Ettore Bugatti and his involvement with the company. The more you study the early racers you find there were a few guys that were on the ball. In addition Bugatti had been around OHC technology for many years before adopting Miller's work, but as Cris pointed out Miller lifted a few ideas from here and there as almost all of the OHC designers/builders of the day.

Jim,

Me too. I would like to know where AR Welsh and George Weideley got their ideas for a OHC hemi way before 1910. There were just no broken, ex pukka Euro GP cars lying about in the midwest to copy. Borgeson put on the blinders to earlier SOHC's, like the 1906 MB, and I think a study of these show the paper was not exactly "clean" as you suggest. The "who copied who" game is pretty clouded with revisionistic history and national pride. In the Miller/Bugatti debate, the question is why did it take so long for M. Bugatti to copy the Peugeot DOHC ? He did not have to wait +10 years for the technology to cross the Atlantic, shuffle out to CA, and circle back to Monza I think it is simply a case of stubborness and not changing an outdated and technically backward design until he had to. Miller had a much better understanding of gas flow requirements and his carbs are something Bugatti could not have come up with in his dreams. However, many european text still credit Lampredi with the single choke per cylinder when Harry was doing it 30 years earlier. The speed at which the technology was copied in the teens and twenty is remarkable. Personally, I believe Ernest Henry deserves more credit, after you finish looking at all of his later designs for Ballot.

Paul

 

to toss a bit in...I recall reading somewhere that Marc Birkigt of Hisso fame, once made a claim that one of "les Charlatans" stole his idea for the DOHC engine and that he came up with the whole idea first.

 

In the just wondering department, how much do the vintage Indy racers, like a Miller sized car, weigh? Estimated HP? Thanx, Gary

 

I recall reading somewhere that Marc Birkigt of Hisso fame, once made a claim that one of "les Charlatans" stole his idea for the DOHC engine and that he came up with the whole idea first.


I don't think that was his claim, but one of the national pride issues. The later Hisso SOHC's with threaded stem, mushroom tappets would suggest otherwise. He was free to build a DOHC like everyone else, five minutes after the paint dried on the Peugeot. I don't think there ever was a competitive Birkigt DOHC. The bucket tappets on Henry's 1919 Ballot show he was thinking about the right things. Miller saw this and also knew it was the way to go. Copying the right things is what counts. There is nothing material in the Bugatti 51 head that wasn't already in the Miller 91 and earlier.

 

In the just wondering department, how much do the vintage Indy racers, like a Miller sized car, weigh? Estimated HP?

Gary,

The 1920's Miller Indy engines were 3, 2, and 1.5 liter, some supercharged, so it varys. The 1.5 liter supercharged straight eight 91 that Bugatti copied made around 200 hp. I don't know the car weight , but it looks like 1200 or less. Good for a 127 mph lap on a board track in 1927.

Paul

 

As to weight and horsepower. I believe Paul is probably pretty close if you take the lightest car, possibly a 122 dry weight. Realistically most of the 91 cars may have weighed a few pounds more than 1200. The early cars and the 30s cars were probably closer to the 2000 lb weight, but then again they were not the headliners that the 122 and 91 cars were. I thought the horsepower may have been a bit more than 200 maybe closer to 300 during the zenith of the 20s but that may have been hype-who knows. Paul is pretty close nevertheless.

Here are a few more Miller Meet pics. For whatever reason my computer is giving me fits on loading pics. Will try a few more later on.

 

Without question the highlight of the weekend was Bill Castle's 183 Baby Chevrolet. I met Bill shortly after he started on this car about five years ago and have watched with great interest what he has done with this car. Bill has made no bones about what he has done with the car. In the age of "restoring" old racers behind close doors Bill has been open about his "duplicating" what it once was. The car burned in 1922 with pretty much only the engine surviving so the obligatory "story" that accompanies so many early racers was not possible. His workmanship has been nothing short of outstanding. The car and Bill was recently written up in the June 2011 issue of Automobile entitled "Reverse Engineering, Ninety year old Bill Castle had the world's most historic Miller engine so he scratch built an entire race car to support it". A great article.

For those not familiar with the car this car houses the oldest Miller racing engine, one of the first 183 Millers. The first two 183s had detachable cylinder heads and this is the only survivor. The oldest "recreation" (or whatever you want to call it) of a Miller is the Golden Sub which is superb but the engine was an aero engine as opposed to Bill's actual racing motor.

Although Bill was not up to the trip to Milwaukee his son Terry was gracious enough to give me ride in the car. The last pic is one I took looking over the hood which I will certainly treasure.

As to Bob's inquiry as to what will probably happen to the racing motors that sold at the auction-my guess is new racers will be built to make a return trip to Milwaukee so that we can all enjoy the sights and sounds we are presently being deprived of. I for one will not complain-Jim

 

Thanks Jim! Is that the Gilmore #33 in front of you in that last shot? Just so nobody gets the wrong idea about my above post about the engines, I would rather see them in replicas than sitting on a stand. Did some or all of the engines have known histories, so that proper clones can be constructed?

 

Bob, yes I believe that is the Gilmore #33 (1934 Sparks Wierick Miller). As to the engines I am not sure about any provenance that can be claimed but with these cars you have to stay tuned as stories can be developed, without a whole bunch of effort. I would assume if any had a real definitive history we would have heard about it to pump the sale. I heard the 91 that went for $250,000 or $260,000 plus commission was a marine engine but who knows what the real history is.

I think if no known history exists you may as well shoot for the moon with the most interesting clone or whatever you want to call it.-Jim

 

Thanks Jim, That Gilmore #33 is the first car I plan to buy if I ever win Lotto. I tried to buy it years ago when it was an engineless unrestored project that the then owner wouldn't part with. I skipped calling by one month, only to find out he had accepted a $10,000 offer, that was 35+ years ago. Bob

 

These old racers are neat. The current look at old racers keeps you thinking... no, no, not another project! I love to look anyway. Thanks for sharing.

 

Here's a little sumpin' from across the pond worth a minute or two of your time....You will definitely want your sound on....Enjoy!-Mark

http://www.flixxy.com/bmw-v12-racing-car-1908.htm

"><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2pcRRk0msas" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="349"></iframe>

 

God I love listening to that thing start up... chilllssss

 

We bought this photo over the winter of the Pullen-Oldfield match race at Ascot which is dated 1914. Both of them are in their Mercer racing cars. I have done quite a bit of searching but have been unable to find out the details of the race or who won. Can anyone clear this up? I will be doing a post over on The Old Motor about it with detailed closeups in the future. Thanks to all of you who have stopped by.

 

Possibly scheduled for December 20th. Google News comes up with a link to the LA Times of December 6th which suggests that, but I don't have a Newsquest account to investigate further.

http://www.google.com/archivesearch...ate=1914&lr=&as_src=&as_price=p0&as_scoring=a

 

The #4 MERCER is alive and well in Oregon I believe, I'd check with the owner. I've never seen a MERCER with a V's radiator like the one on the Oldfield car. Great photo, thanks for posting it on both sites! Bob

 

Bob

Please remember that Roger Ellis made #4 and enough spare parts to build a second. He was a good guy. Loved Mercers and want one of the long gone racers. I'd say the same for George ........ and hope the next owners remember the car was made in the 70's-80's

 

I believe I have read that George has gone so far as to "prove" with photographs that the engine in the #4 car was the Pullen original engine? Back in the late eighties David Uihlein restored the car and presented it in a yellow livery (or is this a different car?). Are there any old articles on the "restoration/recreation" by Roger on this car that you can remember. Did not Roger build this Mercer as well?-Jim

 

Different car, Jim. This is (supposed to be) the 300 CID Mercer that ran in the 1912 Indy 500, driven to 3rd place by Hughie Hughes. There were probably two of those cars, the only racing Mercers that I know of with right-hand exhausts.

 

That was a match race between Oldfield in his Stutz and Bob Burman (Peugeot), postponed to Dec 27 and won by Burman. Barney drove a Mercer at Ascot on Dec 26, 1915, but that wasn't a match race, rather a "regular" fifty-miler with six starters, and won by Pullen in another Mercer.

I don't know of any match race between Pullen and Oldfield at Ascot, and I would think the picture being a Mercer promotional photograph from the 1915 race, especially as the V-radiatored car is, I believe, a car built only that year.

 

Rogers car has a right hand pipe

I can't get the photo to load

It's post #251 here.......

AND Roger had a lot of help and photographs too. He was a great guy and just wanted to do this as a one to one scale project of a lost car

 

Michael, If I am the Jim you are referring to, I knew they were two different cars. I was wondering if Roger Ellis built both a Type 45 and this 300 inch #22 car (as I was quite sure he built the #22 car I attached). I believe there was another right hand exhaust Mercer that also carried the #22 that they attempted to qualify at Indy in 1915 (and possibly 1914-would have to check my records) but it was too slow. I believe that to be one of Delling's 298 cars. This was after the 1915 OHC cars failed to make the feild as well.

I was not sure which Type 45 George Wingard now owns and was not sure of how much of the type 45 was present when David Uihlein "restored" the car in the late 80s. Do you know if they are the same car?-Jim

 

Apologies, Jim, didn't read your post carefully enough!

And you are right about the RHE Mercer #22 at Indy in 1914 (not 1915, that was a wrong caption in the Jack Fox Indy book!), I completely forgot about that one! Yes, it was the 300 CID car designed by Delling and qualified too slow, but was actually allowed to start the race when Ralph de Palma withdrew his six-cylinder Mercedes. Pullen and Mercer, however, withdrew as well, enabling Ray Gilhooley's Isotta-Fraschini to make the field, and thus in a way helping to add an idiomatic expression to the American language!

 

I found an LA Times article of 1948 which states that the car was bought by Babe Stapp "just before the war", and then sold to Jack McAfee who ran it himself in WRA Sprint Car events that year - not too successfully, it seems. Last note I have of McAfee is from an October 1949 WRA event at Oakland Stadium.

 

Thank you Michael, than made my day! I wonder if any bits of the car are still around. I'm sure Stapp ano or McAfee replaced the 91c.i. Offy with something bigger. To add to the MERCER discussion there was a later engine and radiator (T45?) in a Robling family members collection twenty years ago, has that become a car? I'll have to ask the fellow if I see him in October.

 

I was fortunate enough to be shown this and other photos shortly after T-Head had acquired them and since that time i've been searching on and off for any related information but as is normally the case, not much has been found. I wonder if the photo was taken in early 1914, possibly around the time of the Vanderbilt Cup in Febuary? Going by my books this was the last time Oldfield was behind the wheel of a Mercer. In May he was driving a Stutz at the Indianapolis 500 Mile Sweepstakes and at Corona, CA. in November he was in a Maxwell. The LA Times article posted by Vitesse sounds interesting. There were indeed races at Ascot in December that year but Oldfield wasn't racing a Mercer, instead he was scheduled to race the Cyclone against the Peugeot of Bob Burman but after experiencing problems with his car, Oldfield later borrowed Earl Cooper's #8 Stutz who just happened to be spectating. It is reported that Cooper drove the Stutz to Ascot. Other notable's at this meeting were Rickenbacker in the Baby Peugeot and Arthur Klein in the Klein-King-Wisconsin but no mention of Eddie Pullen or any Mercer. Pullen however did race at Ascot in December the following year but searching that far is fruitless when the photo above clearly states the date.

 

Thanks for the MILLER MEET photos Jim.
Coincidentally i read all about the Baby Chevrolet and it's young owner just days before. It was a great little article and explained just how far Mr. Castle went to making the car as authentic as possible. Apart from period photos i don't think i've seen brakes that look so genuine.

 

To much Mercer yabbling here...more MG's!!!

Lemans, 1933 MG J4 driven by John Ford

 

A proper proletariat automobile, made even better cause it has a flatty: an Austin 7 at Lemans!!

Enough with this high faluting talk of mercers and millers and milwauke.

1933: