History What was the FIRST chopped 1949-50 MERCURY

Viewing the profiles of SAM's AND JERRY's side by side I believe SAM's car used other side trim because of the fade away .. so much of the factory area /holes had to be reworked that the stock trim would never lay right again...
actually I like JERRY's profile a little better

I TRIED MY BEST TO MATCH THE WHEEL COVER SIZE WHEN I FLIPPED THE PHOTO..

BECAUSE OF THE SLIGHTLY DIFF ANGLES OF PARKING AND CAMERA HEIGHT THEY DON"T LINE UP TO WELL..

I HAVE TRIED TO OVER LAY THE CHOP TO COMPARE THE SIDE"S BUT IT DID NOT WORK ..

 

The camera use is most likely a Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 large format camera. The details you get with one of those cameras is amazing.

 

He wouldn't have chopped the car start-to-finish all in one day. The photo sequence was likely shot over a period of several days.

 

I don't think anyone has proved which car was chopped first. If Jerry said his was first why not believe him. His quarter windows don't look so hot in paperdog's pic, that could support the theory they did his first, didn't like how the quarter windows turned out, and did them differently for Sam's car... but who knows. Is it me, but in that pic, Sam's roof looks a little pancaked too, but I don't recall it seeming that way in the newer pics of it.

 

You are absolutely correct that no one has proven anything and without more info and definitive dates we may never know. The biggest issue I have with Jerry's story is the inconcistencies that keep creaping into it. I am not saying he or Jeff (who is our go between with Jerry) are intentionally making things up but the story tends to change as new evidence emerges. You have to remember this happend 60 years ago and memories can be forgotten or just remembered differently than what actually happened.

 

Well one of the reason the quarter windows don't look to good in that particular photo is because it was scanned out of a book (one of the Barris Technique books) and the photo was over two pages, and there was a fold right behind the quarter windows. So the quarter windows them self where never flat when the scan (or actually a digital photo) was made of it, so that part of the car is a little distorted... So its shape cannot be judged from that. I think it looks fine. when I look at it in other photos.

I think Jerry asked for the reshaped B pillars specifically. If you would chop a 49-50 Mercury and lean the B-pillars forward they would come out a lot different than how they look on Jerry's Merc. In the beginning when I did not have to many photos of Jerry's Merc I always thought they used another door frame - but flipped - to create the b-pillar. The shape is so much curved. ANd this curve also makes it very hard to match the upper part of the rear side window. Some people have commented about that as well. The flowing lines are there, but the eye follows the downward curve on the door side window, and then has to be moved up to get to the front corner of the rear side window.

This of coarse does not help dating it... its just an observation.
Perhaps, something new they - Jerry and Sam - wanted to try and see if they could make it work. But if it was done on the first chopped mer, or the second, or the.... I don't know... at least not yet. We will figure it out one day.

I talked to Jim Street over the weekend. And I asked him the question about the first chopped Mercury and if he was around at the Barris Shop at that time.
He said Sam's was the first one he saw chopped at the Barris shop. And he also mentioned about it that Sam was a cop at the time (not sure it this was part-time or full-time) and that he worked on it after work. And that it took him some time to get it done because he could only work on it in his spare time. But when I asked him about the Jerry Quesnel Mercury he could not remember him or the car.
But then Jim was most likely not alway around at the Barris Shop during the time these two Merc's where chopped. I know Jim was around, since he and Barris built his 1949 Buick at that time, and later in 1951 he bought the Jack Stewart 1941 Ford.

 

I keep forgetting to add this...

Here is the message that Jerry left on my website 5 years and 11 month ago.
I have emailed with Jerry once or twice after he left this message but he never really wrote anything else important then.

 

To me it is stuff like this that really make me question Jerry's story. I know Jeff tried to explain it as he did some work on his car in his driveway that his dad didn't like just maybe not the chop but if you can't remember a major detail like whether you cut the top off your car the first night you bought it how can any other part of your story be taken at face value.

 

The fact of the matter is that people tell harmless lies. When they do so, they dont realize that there will be thousands of people researching the facts and disecting every word they say about a car they owned 60 years ago.

 

What do you think Anthony?

 

I have no opinion on it at all. I dont have the focus to tread through this the way I want to. All I know is that while the Sam Barris roof is more correct, I like the unique, lean froward characteristics of Quesnels merc with the rogue window shapes.

 

Yep, pretty big red flag there.
Obvious from the photos that other modifications had already been completed before the chop was started.
But I guess if someone questioned me about details from my youth, I'd probably sound a bit sketchy myself - especially if it was 60 years past.
But a detail like whether or not you cut the roof off your brand new car the same day you bought it...?

 

the actual camera was shown in the new Rodders Journal

 

But I don't even think he was asked I think he offered the info. I could understand it more if he was asked and the question might have made him think things happened in a different order but to offer up the info? I hate to be too critical because it was so long ago but man, like you, I feel that is a pretty MAJOR detail to get wrong when we are using his word to help provide us with a timeline.

 

Correct. I had never spoken or emailed with Jerry. At the time I was not even aware he was still with us. Jerry send his message on his own, I never asked him about it. After that I emailed him a few times, but never really did get more info out of him. He did help me on the color of his car in my Kolorized photo of his car. And I also send him a copy of it once it was done. It seamed to me at that time he was not to much interested in the old Custom Cars anymore.
Some time after that I think I gave the contact info for Jerry to Jeff Neppl, (he asked for it on my website telling he built a car inspired by Jerry's "Purple Rage" and wanted to get in touch with Jerry) and he started a friendship with him. Much easier if you live close by than one over seas.


I have tried to find out about the fact if Sam's Merc also had the tops of the rear side windows removed. I asked Darryl Hollenbeck if he could remember this from the time when he prepped and painted the Sam Barris 1949 Mercury. But Darryl could not really remember for sure. There where some welds there, but if they where from the whole top section removed, or the drip rails shaved, or.... he just could not tell.

Perhaps somebody at the Brizio shop can remember this? Possibly Bill Ganahl, he was the project leader I think. Anybody in contact with him.


Here is a photo of the Marcia Campbell photo book of Jerry's Merc. Unfortunately the sequins was already out of order again. The last photo on this page, towards the back of the book is actually the first photo of the car with its un chopped top.

 

Rik,There are some pics of the inside of Sams roof on your site. Maybe you could enlarge them to see some of the weld details around the rear window and 1/4 windows?? Great thread.

 

I know, but those are way to small to tell for sure what happened there.

 

Does anyone have John Mumfords info? Maybe he has some picture of inside the car during the restoration.

 

The irony is that the photo sequence has shown that the recollections of those on both sides of the fence do no match the events.

 

No! That camera was her 1st camera. The caption reads like this:

Marcia's first camera belonged to her mother who gave it to her when she was a little girl. She learned everything on this Kodak no. 2 Folding Autographic Brownie circa 1917. Her coveted Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 and Rolleiflex 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 square cameras came later. Unfortunately, they were eventually traded in for newer models. This camera was on display in the curio cabinet of Marcia's house, and was given to Michelle Yiatras after Marcia passed away.

So the camera in the TRJ was here 1st. The photos taken of Sam chopping the mercury was with a 4X5 camera not a 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. Those photos are not square.The photos on page 102 of her chevy are square format.

 

Reading through these and countless other posts & threads, it seems that the timeline has been narrowed conciderably to within just a few months. It's quite possible that the two cars were "chopped" more or less, simultaniously.

Because, what does the question "Who's Merc was chopped first?" really mean? Which car received a hacksaw to the 'A' pillar first, or which car's 'chop' was finished in lead ready for primer, first?

Interesting topic though! Diggin' all the 'detective' work being done...

 

This is a great thread and a wonderful read. I am in the camp of thinking they were chopped a few weeks apart with Sam's car being the one in color first. I like both of them but Sam's car flows like a beautiful waterfall along a scenic cliff. I'm sure this debate will continue for years to come. The chicken or the egg...not sure but I like em both!

 

Sam did it .. NO MATTER WHAT ITS THE WHO THEN THE WHAT THEN WHERE

 

I know this merc doesnt get talked about very often on here but this really is a stunning Mercury.I wish there were alot more photos of this car.It probably was the first one chopped.

 

isn't there photo of it with a 49 tag on the plate? if so yes its the 1st on chopped.

 

Both photos from the Don Montgomery books.

Yes most likely the first 1949 Merc that got chopped... this one has 1949 License plates.
But its a Convertible...
This post/discussion is about sedans...

 

Has anyone asked bill Hines what he may know on this topic.. One more guy that was around and active during this time

 

Yes this has mostly been about Coupes but it says first chopped 1949 merc on the title,so its worth talking about.The car just has a really nice smooth look,I really like the front bumper /grill treatment on this car.

As far as asking Bill Hines about this...... Im about 95% sure that he was still in detroit at this time,along with Dick Dean. I have asked someone who was around and at these shops during this time (Jack Stewart) and his answer dont seem to hold water with most of the people on this thread.I have Jacks answer on video.

 

Good point Jeff ,thought a shot at it may help

 

Here is a small and poor scan of the Bill Gaylord 1949 Mercury with the Gaylord top on it. This photo was used in an Street Rodder magazine article. Scan by RPW.

It shows the unusual shape of the padded top. Bill treated this top very much the same way as the top he created for the 1941-48 Fords and Mercury's he did. The rear quarter windows completely filled.