I didn't see anywhere on this thread regarding "what do you want to do with this car?" So, I'm asking- what do you want to do with this car? I'm building a flathead for my '29 as a daily driver, yet I dearly love the SBC as well. But I want a flattie. So there. If you're going to just cruise and park with the hood down, go SBC. Best bang for the buck, hands down. Keep the flattie and build it at your leisure. If you want to build your dream car, suck it up, buck it up and go flat from the get-go.
Alot of people keep beating the horse power thing here. Does a sbc or sbf have more power of course they do... Its like saying someone comparing a model A banger engine to a ford 2.3L... The original posting wasnt about getting the most power out of either engine.. he just wants to know which is more feasible without breaking the bank.. Truth is you should check over the flathead it will most likely run and be a fine engine as is... If not maybe a small investment will get it running.. No matter what swap you dicide on it is not gonna be cheap, easy, or quick to accomplish.. You have to factor in finding a engine, transmission, radiator, fab up engine mounts, transmission mounts, exhaust, shifter, drive shaft,etc.... All this stuff nickle and dimes you to death... What seems like the quick and cheap way out isnt always that way in the end... Yes my flathead wont put you in your seat or win any light to light races. But it moves along just fine. On the highway headed to a show in southbury one year some guys passed me out in a rod with a sbc and i just hung with them the rest of the way doing probably 85mph or better... When we got to the show they came over to me and looked at my car and the look on there face when i popped the hood and they saw a flathead was priceless! They werent expecting to see that considering how well my car was cruising.... And yes as stated before anyone that has been around a while could hear a flathead from across the parking lot they have there very own unique sound that cant be beat..
There ya go- a non-brainwashed person after all LOL The little Ford is every bit as common, dependable, easy to find parts for, as those boring little bellybuttons, and just happens to be the same brand as the car. If the car was an early Chebbie, I'd say put a later Chebbie in it- but the whole only a sbc will do concept is just hooey. No vintage speed parts? Are you kidding me? Maybe pushing the '64 threshold a little, but there weren't any 350's or LS1's in '64 either, but they get mentioned a lot on here (that's different though right?), and the little Ford was very popular in road racers and such by the mid-60's, lotsa goodies for them. 260/289/302, even the 351W weigh considerable less than a sbc, and the dizzy isn't in the firewall. Rear sump pans are also readily available if needed for clearance As others have mentioned, have you tinkered with the flatty yet? Might not be a dead soldier, and it's already in there. With a little Ford, you could probably get it hooked up to your original tranny with a little work. C4 is also one of the smaller and lighter autos, AOD is only a little heavier. Since The Great Brainwashed never hesitate to recommend later sbc's and OD autos, a 302/AOD setup is inexpensive and common as dirt, and an EFI 5.0 HO with AOD or 5-spd can be had for well under $1000, simplified plug 'n play wiring harnesses are available, and performance bang for the buck? You'd have to seriously have your head in the sand to deny that one. My old Lincoln LSC with 5.0 HO got 26 mpg at 85 mph. Plain 289/302 with some vintage dressup would also pull that car around just fine. And a sbf sounds better than a sbc
There has been a SBC in my inherited 1940 for some 45 years. Transmissions from stock (open drive shaft converted) to La Salle and Muncie to a late model 3 speed OD. Last engine was a 327 SBC corvette engine that ran on propane. Could deal with all the belly button jokes and the condescending stares from some guys but decided to go with mild built engine from H&H Flatheads and a 4 speed with Jeep shifter conversion. Want to experiance the flathead engine with the best upgrades for reliablity I can find. Nothing wrong with SBC engine in early car as long as that is what you really want. One more thing to add is the availability of the "French block" for those that want a "new" block.
A flathead with an OD 3 speed is very drivable. Every time I stop for gas, someone asks me about the flathead, it just has a certain charisma. My pan head '53 FL never had this much "bang for the buck". Investigate the flathead a little further and you too may acquire the taste.
Well mainly I just want to cruise it, and be able to drive state to state to shows or whatever. I'm not trying to win any drag races
From the sound of it, I think he got a HELL of a lemon man. Musta salted ya up good!!! SBC's are great engines, I don't even know how you could argue that... Even being a ford guy As for to OP's car, I'd say a sweet lil 283 or 327 dude. they run tits. espcially if your running from there to vegas. Not the flatties Wont make it. But I think you would be most happy with a sbc. Nothin' like driving it. Like other people say, pull the flattie & build it for later. SBC and drive it, although, it may be had to go back to 90-100hp afterwards...Just so others are happy with you at shows Good luck man
Well you can buy a ford in a box for about the same price but it won't run like the Chevy. Here is the deal if you want "bang" loose the flatty for about anything you can get your hands on. if you want smooth built in the true tradition of customs a flatty is a good option as well as a caddy or olds from the same era or if you are willing to go farther into the 50s a poncho or buick. it won't matter how much money you throw at the flatty you won't get much "bang" out of it and still be able to drive it. I donot care for crate motors. They are for middle aged men going through andro-pause and don't have the skill set or the patience to get themselves something with heart. The flatty is going to cost you unless it is solid and would be better suited for a light car. I dearly love the SBC but I don't know that it would be your best choice for the old Merc. Money wise you would be ahead of the game to go with one but it just isn't the best choice for your old merc.
Well a flat head can definately fill those requirements. Like I said earlier its at least worth checking the flatty out to see what it needs . I wouldn't be suprised if with a little tinkering you could get it running. They can be just as reliable as any other motor.and if its toast then go to plan B
I just bought my Flathead for for my 51 Shoebox. Its good to hear some of the good stories about flatheads. As far as the orig question. What is your goal for the car? Do you have a goal for it? Goals can change, and engine can be swapped. As far as the cool factor people talk about for the flathead, some say "oh its not worth it". If its not worth it, then why are you putting money into a car that is "ancient technology"? the fact is the whole car is for the cool factor for you. I got a 51 shoebox because I saw one and I was in love 13 yrs ago. I got one this year. Not for the cool factor of anyone else, but for me. So getting a flathead to put in it makes my dream car come true, maybe a high price, but hey it all matter what you want. If you just want to drive it, have high hp then do sbc. My suggestion is, focus on other parts of the car. Get to know it, look at other pics of them finished, take one month at least the revisit the situation. I went back and forth, 302, flatty. But the flatty one, I waited found a decent one, they guy hoked me up with two trannys, a dash, 2 front finders, and about 3 other things for next to nothing.
Why isn't this thread about a Y-block vs a flathead? Didn't Ford Motor Company themselves decide the OHV was a step up from the lawnmower engine technology flathead before Chevy even came out with their V8?
1950ChevySuburban and others who say go ahead, but keep your hood closed are laughable. The SBC is arguably the most successful auto engine ever built. Open your hood no matter what you put in it, even if it's a Toyota 4-banger. If you like moving 3800 pounds with 100 hp use the flatty, if you want to hotrod it go with a stroked 350. GEEEZZZZ
I like them both. My 39 has a 62 327 in it and I would leave for california tonight , will also haul ass. My 53 customline has the original flathead fordomatic in it , Has never overheated and will cruise the interstate at 80 all day long , It is a little slow off the line though. God only knows when and if either has EVER been rebuilt.
Here's another one that likes to hog a 283 out too a 4.00" bore size... Why not drop a 283 crank in a early 327 block and NOT worry about cutting into a water jacket or weakening the cylinder walls??? Get with the program!! Some folks just never learn...
Correct the Ford Motor company did build a valve in head V-8 before the small block chevy. I believe it was to compete with the other valve in head V-8s already on the market, I could be wrong. I don't know much about mercs of the era but I do know that rodders were slamming olds and caddy valve in head V-8s in their Fords as soon as they could lay their hands on them. Anyway on the question that Dr J proposed. I think that the Chevy Verses Flathead Ford question and not the Y Block question is because you can't buy a Y Block in a box. This is no reflection on the OP but I think we as a whloe have become lazy. I had a fella tell me a couple of years back that there was no reason to build an engine for your rod when you could buy one already built. I am totaly opposed to that because I believe that you build it from the top to the bottom, every little piece. Building an engine is just part of the process. Someone mentioned cool factor, I don't believe it is about being cool at all it is having the satisfaction of being able to say that you built it yourself. Maybe you can't build a Sam Barris quality car but it is still the one that you built.
The REAL answer to the question as I see it depends on what is wrong with the flathead. Some old cars were parked with relatively fresh engines. Is the engine good, or is it shit? If you can get the flathead running reliably for say under $1,500, it will be the cheaper route than swapping in the SBC... There is more to swapping in a SBC than dropping an engine, how many stock trans are going to be smoked before "upgrading", same with rear axle.... Besides, it will be cooler.....
There is no reason you can't do that with the Flatty but have you ever driven something like this before? As with my 100 hp 170 63 Fairlane, it's great little car that will eventually break any posted speed limit, it runs fine but just like that Flathead Merc lets see you get on and off a few busy freeway ramps and muscle through heavy traffic and see what you think then. Sure you can do it and if you are really into it I'm sure it's worth it to you. Me even with a crusier I want something that when you smack the throttle it moves. So when someone's little sunshine is putting on her makeup while texting and merging three lanes I can get the hell out of the way. A "traditional" hotrod under two thousand can be fun with this type powerplant but with the Merc I wouldn't even consider using the Flathead ever. I'd be hunting a multi carb MEL 430, a late 50's Olds or even a Caddy but that's from someone with really strong opinions that doesn't care about a how popular Nailheads and Flatty's are all of a sudden. ____________________________________________________________ P.S. please continue on not knowing when the Sbf came out and thinking that since it was rarely covered in Strombergs there is no "speed" equipment for it.
I'm not completely sure of the total conditon of the engine. I'm thinking because the engine hasn't ran in almost 40 years it needs to be rebuilt. I could be wrong. Like I mentioned earlier the oldest car I have owed before was a 64 Impala ss. Which was easy because of the abundance of parts I could get for it. And in my research for parts and ideas for the merc I found the HAMB. Which is awesome. Getting others opinions who have been there and done that helps alot. I had a 49 GMC 5 window truck from a co worker and was working on that till I found the merc. Now with the merc I have the option to pretty much do anything to it. It's not chopped or anything. It's pretty much all original. With so much customizing the options are limited to your wallet. I was thinking I would start with the engine first and try to get back on the road.
Got any pictures of the Merc? If you're not that attached to it, I probably got something to trade you for it- and I have all those 427's... Also just got a pair of 40 Ford pickup projects, and was only going to keep one- just sayin'
Sorry the Merc is my dream car. been wanting one since I was about 7 years old. 30+ years later I finally got one. Been searching hard for the past 10 years but since this war on terrorism started I havent been home long enough to do anything. I finally have a break for at least the next year of so to really put some serious time in and her back on the road and cruzing
I do have a line on a couple later, low-hours flatties, seems like a worthy home for one Unless you want to REALLY want some some jump when you open the hood, I still have all that Zephyr V12 stuff Not too many points for "practicle" but +100 for double-takes when you open the hood
Its a tough decision, I am in the same boat as you. I had a 8ba given to me for my project. Has been setting since the 70's. Have been getting prices for just the parts to rebuild. I am over 2K, this is Ross pistons & rings, all bearings, gaskets, oil pump, water pumps, the cam and related parts and the T-5 adapter but no clutch disc. Still have to get a carb & intake, alt/ac brackets. No machining or assembly is included in this price. Makes the SBC swap look very tempting.
5 shots of Jack at closing time makes a fat ugly chick tempting too- but when you sober up and pull back the covers- "Don't open the hood" is the automotive equivalent of sneaking the fat chick out of your house under a blanket in the morning
Ultimately, it's your car. Put in what you like. Factor in: A. What's reliable B. What you feel comfortable working on C. What you're building the car for. If it's a custom that will never have the hood up, put whatever in there. If you want to resell it, think of what will being resale value. What can you build and maintain? When my engine blew up, I got a 327. Sure, it's SBC, but it's a GOOD SBC. Personally, I'd redo the flathead, but if you're familiar with other engines, do what you want. See what you want out of the build. You've always wanted one, did you always want a hot rod, a resto-rod, a custom, a good looking stocker...? It's just like what kind of paint you put on it. You put in what you want to get out. Take all factors into account. Think about what you want. Hope that helps.
Guess it basically comes down to how much money you want to spend. Just about any engine can be made very reliable for a daily driver. The secondary items (points, generator, etc) are generally what fails.
Ya know what! It's your car.....not sure why you ask the question here.....to get a lot of leg pullin' and some bashin'? Do what YOU want. Pretty simple to me.
Yes it is up to me I just wanted to get other opinion and ideas. Isn't that the purpose of the forum?
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