Customs Where to draw the line... (Customs Only!!)

Thanks K13,I just logged in and was about to write basically what you wrote or at least try to explain that.

 

Very Nice !

 

i like some of the points you made but how about this?
many , if not most of our beloved customizing heros did not look at "what could have been" nor did they concentrate on "how it was".
they plain and simply focused on "how can i make it better" and in many cases "what might it be like in the future".
they were futuristic and we are nostalgic about their visions of the future..
doesnt seem like the two could coincide but we have somehow managed for the impossible to be possible.
the major difference i see between them as a group and us as a group is that they customized new or newer cars for the most part and for the most part we customize old cars.
i guess you could say thier's was a car hobby and ours is an old car hobby.
i think you are right that for this conversation, traditional needs to be defined better.

 

I would also strongly disagree with this. I don't want to start a fight here, but many customs built after '57 had lots of custom work. Look at a lot of customs built by the Alexander Brothers in that time frame for example. Also Bill Hines had some wild ones. I am currently customizing my '56 Ford to be around 1959. I am going to try and use some techniques used on "the Victorian" built by the Alexander Brothers. Once again not trying to start a fight, just saying lots of neat cars were being built after '57.

Wow, your car is really clean. I think it is killer man! I am trying to build my '56 to be a 1959 custom and I as well have a T-5. Not by choice it is what the original owner put in. It has served me well and had got the job done, although I would like an automatic, if I had the money.

 

Precisely. The fact that we're looking back while the old custom builders were looking, if not exactly ahead, at least ahead to when what they're building hits the streets and the people see something they haven't seen before, only goes to underline the absurdity of hard-line historical purism outside a straight restoration/recreation.

I don't even think it makes all that much sense to have a single, universal definition of "traditional". I'm not even sure the term is strictly appropriate for what we (however vaguely) mean, even if something more accurate like "historic-oriented" would be way too clumsy to use. I think one can apply the idea of "traditional" differently for different cars and still have a single, cohesive concept. But that means that "not traditional" ceases to be a stick to hit people with, having become much too soft to do any harm ...

 

Man this is one of the most interesting threads I have read since I started on the H.A.M.B. two years ago. I like what KRIPFINK said "Traditionally Inspired", thats me! My '51 is my attempt to try and duplicate the '51 I had in high school (1962), and do some of the things I could not afford to do to it back then. I would say my '51 is almost traditional except for a few things like, it has a later model 351 Cleveland with fake Cobra valve covers, the trans is a 5 speed (at least 1or2 speeds too many), the wide whites are radials, the hubcaps are repops of the '57 Lancers, the interior is tweed (which I hate so much I cover al of it I can with Mexican blankets until I can get a good Roll & Pleat job done ($$$$!!) and the paint is a flatened gloss (it does not show the less than perfect bodywork so much)... BUT there is NO billet and NO painted chrome plus I did not take out a second mortage on the house to pay for it!
I can say though...it is done my way and is aiways in work. Every show it has been in, it draws a crowd and plenty of compliments from both the other entrants and the spectators really enjoy looking at all the small things I have done to the car and all the fun stuff I display with it, from an original Korean War Army jacket thrown over the seat back to the original '48 wood speedboat I pull behind it.
Lets keep this thread going...its got lots of good info. and everyone has an interesting opinion.

 

this is a cool thread to read. learning alot.

 

I understand the "traditionally inspired" point of veiw. I do it with my cars and see it done often with my customer's cars. I just seem to cry when I see random parts, new,old,reproduction and vintage, thrown together with out any sense of style at all just to get a car on the road no matter how much is in your bank account. I see it at all levels of wealth, all over the country. If you pic a style, do your best to stick with it and enjoy your ride. As many of you have said, you are building your car/truck for your personal pleasure, not for others, but remember I will be the first to snicker and walk away ( I wont personally call you out on it) when I see you have an aftermarket GM tilt column topped with a rubber 80s Camaro steering wheel with a Pro Comp monster tach hangin' off the side in front of your mexican blanket covered seat in your "traditionally inspired" ride......

When building ANY car...HAVE A BUILD PLAN! A pile of random parts just looks exactly that way when you are done bolting it all together into a drivable car......

 

I mean, I guess my car is more period themed, then period correct. I use reproduction parts, and I have (against my will) a really ugly tape deck in my dash. I've located and will hopefully soon get a new dash insert and radio to fix that problem. If not, then I'll get creative. I mean, I've got a full tuck and roll interior, big static drop, dressed up 292, olds rings with lucas slr700s thrown in them, and other custom touches, but I will agree, the cheesy 80's tape deck takes the whole car out of the era.

Post #129 hit the nail on the head. HAVE A BUILD PLAN. Have a vision, and while it can shift, a little, keep the car something that you WANT it to be, not throw a bunch of crap together and hope!

 

No fight just a good conversation. The point is is that after the mid 50's and really after the customizing of post 1951 model years began the look and feel of the custom car changed dramatically. There was no longer anything subtle about them. It doesn't mean there were not some great cars being produced or that there were some exceptions to this but in general what alot of people feel was the "golden era" of customs was over. Part of it was that the newer designs being put out by the manufacturers just didn't lend themselves to that organic flowing style that the earlier rounder bodied cars did.

 

I'm in agreement with the "leave the hood closed and it's all good" idea. My '51 Tin Woody has an LS motor and 4l60E, and I leave the hood shut, unless somebody asks. It's done up early 60's style (as I recall, being kid in the early 60's), skinny whites, light lowering job, as much as I can get away with and still call on it for tow-duty. Period style interior done in green and red plaid, although I did use the steering column from the '02 Chevy pickup donor for the switch gear. Admittedly, I don't like the steering wheel, but aside from that, the car looks pretty period correct.

My '48 Pontiac 'vert on the other hand is a little more "street-roddy", although that's more a matter of being cheap with the last re-power than going for a certain style. I simply used EVERYTHING from the donor Caddy Fleetwood Bro., including the interior, digital dash and even the rather odd aluminum Caddy wheels (I did cut up some '51 Pontiac hubcaps for the wheel centers, but there's no disguising those wheels). I intentionally built it to do it on the cheap, and it worked. The only thing I bought, other than the Caddy itself, was a driveshaft. I used the brake lines, fuel lines, battery, wheels and tires, everything. The car is what it is, and I don't make excuses for it. We've put 50K on it in the 10 years since the swap, and it's wearing 25 year old paint. It's late 70's resto-rod survivor, and I'm proud of it. There was a "build plan" and it was to spend no money and enjoy the car instead of letting mold in the garage. Snicker all you want at the rubber Camaro steering wheel, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

I'm AM planning on going back to the original seats, new upholstery and a top, sombrero's or full wheel covers on the ralley wheels currently on it, a new, non tilt steering column, and going with a tail-dragger early/mid fifties mild custom when some of the other projects get done. Mainly because the car really needs cosmetics anyway.

I like contemporary customs too, and am doing my '59 T'Bird in that style, but I don't talk much about it here, 'cause it's not appropriate for this board. I understand that and it's not a problem. Again, I'm not going to make excuses, I like what I like.

 

My ol man actually normally called a lead sled an abortion. By the later '50s or earlier '60s I am afraid that a lot of them were. In my eyes a lot of them were done in poor taste with stuff added on the needn't be there for points sake.

I figured that you gave me the perfect chance to clarify for the younger set what the Ala Cart actually was or what catagory it would have shown in.


I actually made tha assumption that you had some idea what was going on, I can't put my finger on you but I feel like I should have some idea who you are. That being the case I hope we like each other.

 

I kind of build what I like.

 

me too, but if it doesn't fit in here I don't try and cram it in...

 

"Why is everyone afraid of non-radial tires"?

The survival rate was substantially lower than is currently enjoyed. I have probably half a million miles on non-radials, and all I can say is that if you want better handling in wet or dry conditions, quicker braking and longer life, radials are great.

Nobody is afraid of bias-ply tires. We gave them a good try. Anyone afraid of radials?

My 1951 ford pickup now has 4-wheel disc brakes. I didn't fear my totally rebuilt to new specifications drum brakes I used for 2 years, I just got sick of constantly computing my safe stopping distance. If you have a phone in your pocket, you have already surrendered to modernity...ease up.

 

I didn't read every post so excuse me if this has been explained already.......but what is it about the look of radial tires that some people don't like? Just asking !

 

I love this discussion. I had to finally join to chime in. (thanks for having me.) I am elderly, and clearly remember the mid 1950's- rods and customs. Many of the daily driven rods would be considered "Rat rods" now. Most of the customs were heavy, underpowered and rumored to be unable of driving to the shows. (frequently not the case) Lots of power, good handling and excellent brakes were always goals. They just weren't available. Now they are.

You purists...I'm curious...How do you think you personally would be received if your period correct vehicle suddenly appeared in 1960? I can assure you your car would get you some attention. Are you covered with tattoos and full of body piercings? Those would get you some attention, too. And a beating. Or two. Period correct is great if you understand it. Don't feel guilty for better brakes, radials or handling improvements. If the original rodders could have gotten them, they'd have put them on immediately. Which, they did!! I see cars every day I don't really approve of... Boo Hoo...poor me.

 

Do yourself a favor... Read This First! Then go do your intro. Maybe read the whole thread instead of just running off at the mouth. We have talked of the latitude given for safety and performance, but like it or not, obviously modern modifications do NOT go over here. And it's not gonna change. And just so you know personal appearance really doesn't matter here at all, so you can keep your "if you're tattooed you'd get your ass beat" stuff to yourself, stay with the cars.

 

I think forget the technicalities of "Traditional" and built what you like. And I like custom frames, suspension and old motors. Forget the body crap it is the frames, suspension and motors that make a car drive, stop and basically go. I've never seen a body move, but I've seen a chassis and engine go without the body.

 

Yeah do that, but if it's off topic here don't post it...

 

I would agree that cars after '57 were hard to customize. I mean look at a bone stock 1958 Chevrolet Impala, 1960 Ford Starliner or a 1963 Ford Thunderbird. Cars like that are already timeless and classy right off the showroom floor. But you can't argue that customizers still didn't build badass rides after 1957. Take a look at the "Adonis" for example. There is a car that already looked badass from the factory, but with some clean customization done by the Alexander Brothers it was that much better. Another fine example would be Bob Massaron's "Venturian" which won the Don Ridler Memorial Award in 1965. That car was all class if you ask me. Another badass custom by the Alexander Brothers. You also have Mike Budnick's '60 Pontiac that the Brothers did as well. Lots of great cars and a car that most HAMBers say is to beautiful already to customize the 1964 Ford Galaxy, well the Alexander Brothers also did a great job with one of those called "Alexa".

Also if you are not into the Alexander Brothers look at what came out of the Barris shop. One speaks that could argue this fact is the 1966 Buick Wildcat known as "Mystique". There is a car that brought back chopped tops in a time where they kind of faded out. Most people will say cars after 1963 don't look good chopped, but the "Mystique" contradicts that in every way shape and form. It is a totally radical custom from the '60's that was built how they would have built customs back in the early days.

Last but not least I will leave you with the Gene Howard 1950 Buick. There is a car that defied all odds in the 1960's. It was a radical car that I would really like to own one day (if it is still around). It is a car that is a wild wild wild custom and was born in 1965 I think? Atleast that is when it apeard in the magazines.

Anyways point is. Customs were badass before 1957 and customs were badass after 1957. I wouldn't say after '57 cars are better and I wouldn't say pre '57 cars are better. They are both beautiful and I like all of them. I just love customs don't matter when they are built

I am not quit sure you understand what a "custom" really is. In order to be a "custom car" there has to be custom body fabrication and custom body work. Hence the name "custom". I would never call a 1950 Chevy all stock on the outside with an Art Morrison frame, and LT1, and a Lenco transmission a "custom". It would just be a resto-rod. You couldn't have a custom car with just a custom chassis and a crate motor and call it a custom. If you went to a car show and thought like that pretty much everything besides the restorations would be "customs". I said in the title "(Customs Only)". I said that so we would not get into hot rods or anything like that. By customs I mean "Aztec", "Victorian", "Alexa", "Venturian", "Grapevine", etc. Not a pro-touring '70 Camaro built by Year One.

 

If this sold for 500 in the late 50s then I think it was safe to say customs were dead.(at least early ones.)
Of coarse there were plenty of cars that were customized in the late 50s and 60s and I even liked some of them.I dont know maybe all the late 50s and 60s cars were "Kustoms"? I dont know it was a different era of cars when 1956,1957 and so on hit.Sure there were a shitload of cars being customized in the early 60s but it was just different.I personally like the early stuff but I do dig some of the late 50s and 60s stuff too.

 

I like you already

 

I also like the early stuff a lot more as well. In fact one of my favorite customizers is Harry Westergard. I wish I had the money to buy an earlier car (like 1930's) and make it an old classy Westergard style car. But I don't I have a later '50's car. It's just what I have to work with. The reason that car was sold for $500 was that was considered a lot of money back then. Also a grown up man with a family couldn't use it to drive his family around comfortably. Back then a family usually had one car. So this broadened the spectrum of who it could have been sold to. Cars like that were generally sold to younger men and teenagers, who probably didn't make that much and they wouldn't be able to afford it if it was anything more than $500. It was also an outdated car to as different kinds of customs were being built (the ones I mentioned above). So that style was kind of out of style. I am not going to argue they did things different. Some people like the early style some people like the later style. I like both a lot, but if I had to choose it would probably be the earlier style.

Anyways enough ranting. What else do you guys think does not belong on a "traditional" custom???

 

Someone here mentioned it already but the fact is that a custom was always about style.
So there must be a continuous flow of art that brings the whole car together.
The wheels, tires, AC, engine, radio....all that seems to not bother me as long as it's done tastefully and it docent throw you off when looking at it....stance is one of the main things here...you either chop it or bag it or whatever....just get the stance right.
Make the ride safe, make it have style, and make it enjoyable.

 

I tend to agree that if it not seen it is ok to let slide from a traditional standpoint but I sure do have A LOT of respect for guys like Jeff who run everything period and suffer through the "shortcomings" and difficulties that doing this sometimes bring. It is a ture dedication that few are willing to stick to.

 

Sorry, ZMAN....I wasn't threatening. Only reporting the facts. I have read the whole thing and lots of other stuff on here, and I enjoy it. I live in Minnesota, and every year we have the "back to the 50's" car show with over 11,000 pre-1964 cars. I like the traditional rods, (dare I say) rat rods and nostalgia race cars. There is a segment of the "traditional" enthusiasts who come in costume. The tattoo remarks are not to put anyone down, just to chuckle about how tense everyone was in the 1950's. When you've lived it and not simply seen it in a movie, it takes on a different significance.

Stick to the cars? Okay: At the above mentioned show there were (depending on your interpretation and date range) about 150 truly traditional rods and customs. Hard core, anyway. Of those, only a handful really had the whole car done period correct. You have to consider most cars "in progress" and I assume many will add period parts as they find them later. These were all great cars. I didn't hear anyone yapping at anyone else for a "too new" part or accessory. I understand car rivalries. I'm not fond of Chevy engines in Fords, either. I can be polite and civil about it, though. Like many, I've built and run a few flatheads, but moved on. I still like looking at them.

I don't want to change anything. Run off at the mouth? Oh...okay. Nice to meet you too. Does that cob cause discomfort?

 

One more time... Read This First! then do your intro, you walked in to a discussion and just started running your mouth. It's common courtesy for one, two it's in the rules. You don't walk into someone you don't know's garage and start into the middle of a conversation. Pretty easy to understand, but for some reason you want to talk about corn cobs, I think you have a problem.

 

Thanks K13 for the recognition,most people dont ever mention anything like you did.Yes you are right there is some suffering that goes with it and it is a pain in the ass sometimes but I wanted it like that so I cant complain.

 

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