all talladegas came standard - and only - with the 428 CJ . there were no other engines available . now depending on how strict they were with the rules , maybe the NHRA considered these cars "mere" torinos . if that were the case , then maybe someone did swap a 390 in there to drop a class . but i think i'm reaching on this one . another thought [ yeah , i do have them once in a while , but they give me headaches , so i try not to think too much ! ] is that maybe this wasn't an NHRA track . could they have been operating under AHRA rules , and thus different class designations ? i'm probably reaching on this one , also , as that posed shot looks like englishtown , and i believe they always ran with NHRA .
I guess I don't have an answer but, our 69 formal roof ran H/SA at at Indy in 70 71. The convertables ran I/SA. Hey, at my age I'm just glad I still remember what a fairlane is! Frank has a picture of our Hatfield Ford car if he wants to take a chance and throw it on here. I don't know how to. I don't think you can read the class on the window though. Tom.
neat stuff , claymore ! how did your car do in class competition ? i love seeing old period photos like this , but , for crying out loud - that's FORTY YEARS ago ! how can we be this old ? ! on the other hand , i wouldn't trade the memories of what we saw and what we lived thru [ most of them , anyway ] for another 40 years added on to my life . what do the kids today have to look back on ? japanese cars , rap "music" , brian france.....
Guys, let's keep this thread about the history of Holman & Moody. That includes any kind of racing they were involved with. I am sure Ralph Moody was directly connected with the Talladega program as he was with almost every Ford racing program. But unless it was a Holman-Moody team car or at the very least had a HM logo on parts under the hood or displayed on the exterior it should not be on this thread. If we do not stick with that, the important stuff will get lost in the minimal stuff. I really appreciate your time in reading and posting here but this should be a thread for those who are learning for the first time (or learning more) about this amazing racing organization through the great information you have posted and IMO should not be mixed with information that is on other HAMB threads. I am not "getting my panties in a wad" as some have said. I am only trying to keep this thread pure. You all know what that is. Holman-Moody-Stroppe-DePaolo related history. Thanks for your understanding.
I just spent 45 minutes typing about the Pantera venture only to have it vanish when I clicked on "submit". A "log-in" page popped up & then there was nothing........ Any ideas ????? Thanks, Rick
can't anyone help rick ? i'd sure like to read about the pantera project , but i can't help , as i know less about computers than i know about women - except that women smell a whole lot better , even tho they might be more troublesome at times . c'mon - someone kick in with your expertise here . jack
I would like to add to this post. Banjo had no part of driving that red Talladega into the ground. The short story is his sister in law stuffed it into a guard rail and ruined the left side. After that he just let it sit in the weather and rot. That particular car came from Ford SVO and had Ram Air and a four speed iirc. Im told it was hard to document with the serial number because of that. I'm glad someone has restored it to its former glory. The white one was a daily driver for years. Penny drove it until about 77 or 78. It had been repainted and again iirc, neither had the big T on them because of being "back door" SVO cars. I think the white one was the Kings in 1969 when he drove a Fords. I know for sure one of them was, and I did see some blue paint overspray in the right rear of the white one whilst changing a flat tire on Rutledge Rd one wet morning. Its possible both were, as per something I read about SVO liking to hook up the drivers with ram air and 4 speeds. Banjo died in Oct of 1996 so there aint no way to verify any of this, unless some of the guys involved with him then can elaborate. Sorry I'm off topic and long winded, but I couldn't read the comment about him abusing that car and not open my mouth. RIP Unk. :angel: p.s.: they weren't given to him, he paid for them. i pretty sure they were less than two grand each.
hi tom - i did not mean in any way to "slam" banjo . i was simply repeating what i'd read some time ago - thus the word "reportedly" . in retrospect i probably shouldn't have said anything at all . i'm sorry if i stepped on anyone's toes , as that's not something i ever mean to do . jack
Thanks Phil, I'm going to send the info to you so if it gets messed up everyone can be PO'ed at you instead of taking it out on a "newbie". By the way, things going OK ??? Haven't heard from you in a while, guess it takes all your time to count your money.......... you need to stop by the next time you're in town, I'll take you for a ride in the '64 Fairlane..... I'm putting the all aluminum cammer I built for the Cobra in it !!!!!! I don't want to be late for breakfast over at "Hot Rods"........ take care, Rick
I'm posting this for my old Geezer buddy, Rick, so he won't lose it again after working so hard to get it out to us. He's a real Fountain of knowledge when it comes to Fords early 60's and 70's forays into racing. I hope he's able to share some other VERY interesting stories about Fords engine development programs while he was with them, and then later at H-M. He sent this at nearly 2am, and that's awful late for a guy his age. Enjoy! Phil Since just about everything that has been posted covers the "roundy-round" ventures of H&M, I thought I would throw in a little info about the Pantera project.... probably the last big FoMoCo payday for H&M. FoMoCo was going to start selling the Italian built Pantera thru the L&M dealerships starting in about late '70 / early '71 and a few cars actually slipped thru the cracks and were delivered to a few dealers until Uncle Sam got involved and everything came to a screeching halt. Seems like the Panteras had a few "minor problems" according to the DOT and the EPA , the cars could not be sold until certain mods were made to every car. As far as I recall, all the new Panteras that were shipped into the US had to be modified/inspected/verified before they could be delivered to the L&M dealers so they could be sold. I don't know if H&M got all the initial shipment or not but we did a BUNCH of them over a short period of time. Ford was losing big bucks every day the cars could not be sold so we worked LOTS of 12 to 16 hour days until they were finished.The lowest serial number that I remember off the top of my head was #01xx & the highest was #3xxx, we did not get all the cars produced in between the above numbers since the cars were sold in other countries also but we did do several hundred cars at the Charlotte facility. The Panteras were trucked from the shipping ports directly to H&M where they were all stored in the "hangar compound" across the street from the main building. Only Jim Riddle (the Ford designated administrator) could remove or drive any of the cars... they were brought into the fab shop end of the complex (there was an overhead shot of the complex earlier) where we started removing just about everything except the paint & glass. The mini-assembly line ran all the way down the main shop corridor & ended right before the engine/dyno section.... a loooong way of nothing but Pantera shells. We removed the tires/wheels, hoods, deck lids, ALL front & rear suspension, ALL brake system, engine / transaxle assembly, seats & most of the dash, front wiring, HVAC system, exhaust system, gas tank, etc... all that was left was basically just a shell. We welded in reinforcing plates to all suspension and transaxle mounting points, modified the brake system, standardized the front wiring color/circuitry, re-did the HVAC system so that defrost would have AC air and modified the controls, changed out the column lock cylinders and the gas tank/sending unit/speedo, changed out and modified some of the bumpers and mounts. Shift linkage and plates were also changed out and the linkage modified. Big John had built racks to hold all the removed parts and that place looked like the Atlanta assembly plant, we were doing the Panteras while the everyday work still was going on. Big would sit up in the glass tower and he would watch just about everything going on down the shop floor in front of him. One time a couple of younger guys were trying to remove the front spindle/tie rod ends from one of the Panteras & they were not having much luck. Since they were basically just "bodies" & not mechanics, they did not know the tricks & they just kept on beating on the spindle without much luck. Big John had some Ford people in his office at the time & he could easily see the problem the guys were having so he excused himself from the meeting and came down the steps to where the men were working. He picked up 2 hammers and proceeded to show them the easy way to dislodge the parts...white shirt, tie and all. He took the time to show and EXPLAIN the procedure to the newbies, never once getting perturbed or PO'ed, wiped off his hands and went right back upstairs to his meeting. If you ever met Big John or Mr. Moody you never forgot them, we could sure use a lot more men like them today. The cars were all reassembled and Riddle took each one on his famous 10 mile NC road course test run. If he made it back OK, then the cars were cleared for shipment and put back in the "compound" where they waited for the transport trucks to take them to the dealerships. Several cars came to us with blown engines, tore up transaxles and lots of other problems that developed once the cars left Italy. Some of the cars were shipped back to Dearborn for crash testing, etc, while a few others were sold to idiots like me and a few other guys. I'll give my one typing finger a rest for now. Thanks, Rick
sometimes i have a hair trigger. knowing how it irked him so to look at the caved in side i had to comment. i probably should read more and post less. i sent you a pm. didn't mean to offend. love your posts and this board, btw.
great story , rick . i'd like to read more , if your typing finger ever recovers [ i know how that goes . i have "a" typing finger , also ] . didn't bill stroppe do some of that work , also ? i seem to remember something about that .... and he was the "go to" mercury man . jack
Jack, I don't know for a fact whether HMS did any of the Panteras or not but it only makes sense that they would especially for the West coast dealers. We were not told hardly any info regarding the project.... Riddle told us it was to keep the "behind-the-scenes" events info limited to just a few people. FoMoCo didn't want magazines, etc.. telling the potential buying public the background on these high-dollar cars Kinda like politicians blowing smoke up your butt instead of just telling the truth. We were asked not to talk to or give any info to the mags, papers, etc... In retrospect, it would be fun to see the faces of some of the buyers that ended up with these cars if they ever saw the body shells all lined up and down the building corridor and most of the parts missing off the cars. You know how some guys are about a small speck of dirt on their cream-puff !!! Rick
Glad you liked our ad. Actually, I'm glad you even saw it buried back there with all the others. My business partner and I are HMPerformance. We are working to bring Holman Moody's great name back to prominence. The HMPerformance name is for all the modern components to help draw a distinction between the classic business and our own. All of this is with Lee's blessing and direct involvement. I've been a [mostly] silent lurker on this message board. I was about to post some pictures from a local hot-rod show when a friend sent me a link to this thread. He asked if I'd seen it and--I'm sorry to say--I hadn't. I've spent the last few hours (seriously!) reading through all the posts and It's been fantastic. I'll see what pictures I can come up with to add to this thread. Thanks to all of you for keeping this thread going!
I don't recall ever seeing a Talledega Torino as a drag car, not even among the Ford Drag Team racers. I could be wrong though. Joel
#784; " Why have to try and prove that Smokey and the non-Ford racers were cheating more ... ? Joel " Can you? Tom S.
i don't know why you continue to beat this dead horse , joel . and i don't have to prove that smokey cheated "more" , as he admitted to it...BRAGGED about it ! and i don't believe i ever said that the "non-ford" racers cheated more . i said that they ALL cheated . but smokey was a master at it , and , as i said once before , i BELIEVE that smokey was more interested in cheating and getting away with it than he was in winning . my opinion , but i think smokey's record backs me up . and can we be "SURE" that the ford truck was modified more than with the stated "conversion kit" installation ? I can't be sure....can you ? and just to make things - as tricky dick used to say - "perectly clear" . YES i'm i die hard - AH SAY - DIE HARD FORD MAN ... and proud of it ! i do tend to see things in "blue and white" . but i'm not blind , and i'm not [totally] stupid . i'll give the "other guys" credit , if it's due - albeit reluctantly . but if you've really followed racing for as long as i have - and i believe you have ; and if you can be open minded about it , i believe you'll have to admit that , more often than not , ford racers have been given the short end of the stick . and if you want some examples - many , many examples - of this , we can go for it . however , i doubt frank will allow much of that on his thread . but i do hope you'll allow this post to stand , frank . jack
below are 6 , i guess you'd call them "factory" , holman moody postcards . yeah , i collect this stuff , too . i "ordered" them , in a manner of speaking , at the 1969 northern 300 at trenton . pearson had just won the race , so spectators were allowed on the track and in the pits after the cars had shut down . i wandered around , looking at the various cars , waiting for the throng around the HM pit area to diminish . when it finally thinned enough , i walked over so i could get a good look at the winning car - and any other thrilling sights i might see on that temporarily hallowed ground . eventually i found my way to an HM truck , where an HM crewman was taking down a fan's address , explaining that they had no more postcards on the truck , but he would mail him a set . i HAD to ask if he could send me a set also , as i was a big ford and HM fan . i'll never forget how friendly the guy was , but as he had nothing else to write on , he pulled out a match book cover to take down my address . i thanked him , but as i walked away i was thinking that i'll never see those cards . the crewman proved me wrong about 2 weeks later , when i received an envelope with THAT return address : Holman Moody - Charlotte , N.C. the 6 cards i 've posted below were in that envelope . jack
smokey innovated ..got tired Of Bill France Bull and gave up on nascar ..smokey had credibility and he was not a ford hater ..he changed the auto industry
I'll try to attach a couple of pics , note the door of the 27 car.. lots of nos hm parts in the trailer
hi spider - you may not believe this , but i'm not a smokey hater . and i don't believe he was a "ford hater" , either , as he raced fords for at least parts of two seasons [ 1957 and 1969 ] - and he said in his book that ford treated him better than GM ever did when he was racing for them . but he also stated in an issue of "circle track" that he was a "GM man" . yes , smokey was an innovator , but sometimes his "innovations" went too far , and the word " innovation" could be changed to "cheating" . he and france hated each other - and i don't know how this started , but it may have led to smokey trying to put more and more over on big bill's inspectors , which would obviously lead to bill paying more and more "attention" to smokey's cars . this is just speculation on my part . but then , smokey wasn't the only "innovator" [ and i'm not just referring to cheating ] , as men like banjo , bud , junior , leonard , and godfather ralph were absolutely brilliant at what they did . as to changing the auto industry , i don't know . i've read that he developed a "hot vapor" engine , but i've never heard of it being put into production - anywhere . i've read of some other inventions , also [ which , unfortunately , don't come to mind at the moment ] - but i can't think of anything that changed the industry . but i'm not an engineer , so maybe i'm just shooting blanks . the term "engineer" brings to mind some comments made by mario andretti some years ago . mario had driven smokey's cars several times , and said that often smokey seemed to be shooting in the dark when trying to make the car "right" . the remark i remember best was mario saying smokey "was no engineer !" . to say the least , mario was not impressed with smokey's cars . jack
The Jalopy Journal
