Customs Where to draw the line... (Customs Only!!)

I am one of the folks here that have read the entire thread and have enjoyed it, learned a bit and have agreed/disagreed with some of what was written. I respect anyones ability to work on their own car, I respect others decisions on customizing their own cars, trucks, bikes, cycles, boats, homes etc. I don't understand why in this hobby/lifestyle/addiction there is a need to segregate people, cars, etc because they are not 100% this or too much that. If someone builds a car and calls it "traditional" and it isn't he just looks like an ass, I don't need to be the one who tells him. I have had people tell me to my face that they built a certain motorcycle when I knew the builder personally. That is their deal, not mine.
I, from what I've gathered from reading this thread and lurking around this board for a while have a wider definition of "custom" than most on this site and that is OK; this site is set up for a more traditional perspective of cars and car modifications and that is great. I am here to learn as much as I can and apply that to my project. There are many great sites to gather info and find similar builds on. I will continue to build vehicles as I like, taking my influences from as many sources as I can and hope others do the same. Trends will come and go gratefully.
I do get tired of the rags showing only certain styles of cars or bikes as if they are the "deciders" (thanks GWB) as to what is cool. Some people in the hobby actually believe it. What a loss. Again, thanks for the thread.

 

I personally think it should be a build what you like hobby.I don't care what anyone else thinks my car should look like. I build my cars for me.I drive my cars hard on long highway trips at speeds 75 to 80 mph along with the rest of todays traffic. I want updated drive train,good radial tires (wide whites ),modern steering and safe brakes.Yea sure I dig the looks of a cool custom or hot rod but safety comes first for me.

 

They are ugly and stick out like a sore thumb, more so on an open fenderd car, not so much on a custom. Safety my ass, a Prius is safe.

 

So you say safety is cool but radials are not kind of contradicting. Bias plys look cool but there not safe at all.Heres something to think about ,this website hates modernization and will bash peoples cars for not being traditional yet 90% of the people on here that do the bashing like ed roths creations that were made of fiberglass in the 60s as well as barris builds ,and will post pics up and no one says anything negitive ...it was ok for them to innovate but its not cool if someone does it now? Im not being a hater just being observant,its not a opinion its a fact. Excuse my puntuation im posting via phone.

 

You better have the baddest car on planet earth! you deserve a beating

 

I still think I said the best comment in this thread - who are you building your car for, you, or the people who are going to look at it? Once you know who needs to be happy with it when it's done and you're driving it, you have the key to knowing "where to draw the line" -

 

A Fifties build is a Fifties build, 1950-1959, lots of good stuff to use and find in there.
Disc brakes hiding behind steelies and wheel covers, sure, why not? Rodders and customisers always move ahead with the times in the drivetrain and suspension/brakes areas...always making them better.
But a Fifities build is a Fifties build. Hydraulics not bags.

 

There is a real contradiction here on this site. That is, that hottrodders were always the people that operated outside the rules and now there are people that would like clearly defined rules as to what makes a "hotrod" or what makes a "custom". This isn't supposed to be "Pebble Beach"!
When I was younger people always asked when you were looking at an old car if you were going to restore it or hotrod it. You better say you planned to restore it, or they wouldn't sell to you. I can see it now, "are you going to build a traditional hotrod, or a newfangled one?
A "Custom" traditionally was intended to be an improvement on a stock automobile as far as styling and creature comforts. Some were subtle and some were outlandish, but there were never rules!
In my eye and on my Cadillac I don't want to see the modern things, but they are there. In "the day" they always had the latest in sound systems, even with record players! I like mine invisible because it is a clash of styles.
The argument ragging about radials is hogwash! The balloon tires of the fifties do not look that much different than a modern tire of similar profile. I personally do not care for an extremely low profile tire on a "custom", but to say all radials stand out and are ugly is ludicrous!
Don't get so constipated that you can't enjoy all well done cars even if they don't fit your own narrow ideals.

~Alden

 

Just for conversation...
I'm building a '50 Chevy coupe to 1955 standards, just because!
'55 Packard hubcaps, '55 Lincoln headlights, '53 Pontiac bumper, '51 Merc grille shell, '53 Newport grille, etc. If I were to go with, say, a '59 Impala steering wheel (very cool!), I'd probably update everything else!

With the drive train, I wanted all period parts as well... McGurk cam, Jahns pistons, Edmunds intake, '37 Packard box, etc. I could have gone with a Petronix conversion on the Dizzy, but opted for a dual point conversion instead. (Until I found a vintage Mallory) Why? Because I wanted to!

But, hey! It ain't nuthin but a thang! There's more than one flavor of ice cream. Are you crossing the line, or pressing the envelope? Same thing. Whatever floats your boat.

If you think it's cool, I can dig that. Why should I care? Draw your own lines.

 

TIme for my $.02 (where did the "cents" symbol go on the keyboard??)

For safety for my family, on my '60 Olds, I will ditch the single pot PB master cylinder and front drums for a dual res cylinder and front discs. Also, I will add seat belts.

I grew up when stradling the trans hump in the back seat and hanging over the bench w/no seat belts was the norm....but I would end my own life if the worst happened to my children that could have been prevented with seat belts.

 

I'm wondering how well and how long that 1955 battery you'll be using in there will perform and hold a charge... ? It's pretty darn tough to get 'em 100%. Coil, spark plugs, old wiring, every single nut and bolt...? Then you have to deal with finishes.. coated headers, modern paint, etcetera. It becomes really difficult... <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Mine will fall well short of 100%, trust me! Blackmaria60's seat belt idea sounds good to me. (Nothing wrong with "Safety First!") And at my table, budget and practicality also trump protocol. Where I fall short, no big deal. Like I said, it ain't nuthin' but a thang.

But it sure was sweet finding that "Mallory's Best" coil!

 

Seat belts were available at least as early as 1950 in some factory-built passenger cars, that I have personal knowledge of. Maybe earlier? I don't know... It sounds like you're doing all the right stuff to me, 'Mo...

 

Thanks, Special Ed.
As far as seat belts in passenger cars, I was under the impression that they were introduced (by Volvo) in 1959.

 

"MadMan" Muntz installed seatbelts in every Jet he built from 1950 until they shut down in 1953. I still have an original one from mine. Looks like aircraft surplus....

 

I kinda wish some of the legends of customizing could chime in on this. It would be amazing to see what they think.

 

I thought seatbelts were offered in Tuckers?

 

I've heard that as well about the Torpedo, but I can't verify it as fact. The Jet I can verify.

 

They were at least an option in mid-50's Fords, and they had a "safety" package that included belts, among other items ... not particularly popular, but available nonetheless.

Barry

 

Just ran into an old reference that talked about how FoMoCo pushed their safety items, including padded dash and visors, dished steering wheel, and seat belts in 1956 .... earlier??? Don't know.

Barry

 

According to Wikipedia, Nash offered seat belts in 1949. Volvo offered the first 3 point belts in 1959.

Alden

 

You are so right about the LOOK of a custom making or breaking the car. In the 80's I saw many fine Mercurys with late model GM dashboards and steering wheels. They probably were sitting on later model frames which isnt a big deal to me just couldnt get past the plastic dash and wheel.To me a custom by nature is style and profile.Probably as tough a thing to accomplish as a period correct hot rod.If you're gonna do it go all in. Now, that said, If your talk'in my two year old grandson I'm gonna want him strapped into a heavily air-bagged late model . I know some of us survived no seat belts ,drum brakes, and Mom and Dad hav'in one for the road, but maybe we were just lucky.

 

Ford promoted their "Lifeguard" safety equipment starting in '56... dished steering wheel, padded dash, seatbelts, etc... If you have Lee Iacocca's autobiography (from 1984 IIRC) there's a lot of info on how it backfired.

 

Maybe the "tradidionalness" or "periodicalness" could be divided into different stages. Just a thought, I'm not saying this is a correct way to do it...or if it's reasonable thing to try doing it at all. But maybe some of you would find this interesting.

1. Period correct
You pick a time period, and build the car exactly like it would have been done in that period. This means the body, mechanicals, electrics, etc...
In most cases you can still use new parts, can use new type of oils, paints, tools, etc., as well as throw in period perfect seat belts, even if they usually would not have used them on this kind car.

2. Period correct w/ minor "invisible" upgrades
It looks like it could have been built back in the chosen period, outside, inside and in the engine compartment, but it has some minor modern technical upgrades, that are invisible or difficult to notice, such as modern wiring and fuses under the dashboard, modern battery hidden or painted etc. The car still looks, sounds, feels and drives like it was built back in the chosen period.

3. Traditional customizing w/ major technical upgrades
Outside it looks like it could have been built back in the chosen period, and mostly looks like it inside and in the engine compartment, but it has modern technical upgrades, such as disc brakes, modern IFS, modern transmission and rear axle, etc.

4. Traditional outside w/ obvious major technical upgrades
It looks traditional outside, but has a totally modern looking engine or other very obvious stuff.

5. Traditionally inspired
It looks mostly traditional outside, but you can pretty easily notice modern tires or other modern stuff.

6. Modern custom
No part of the car is held back by the image of the certain time period. Builder can freely use his/her creativity, but there's always the whole tradition of car industry and customizing present.

I don't think any of these is better than another, it's all about personal apetite. It also seems impossible to say when the build is traditional and when it isn't. In every case it's a modern build anyway, and on the other hand tradition has its effects on it, so you can pretty much define the line yourself.

I can understand the appeal of artistic freedom to build it without limits, and the desire of making it as good as you can, like customizers "back then" did. I also understand that you may want to have a traditional looking '36 Ford custom, but you also want to drive it all the time in modern traffic and that you want to modernize it technically to make it more suitable to this purpose. But I think it also has a great value to built a car within limits of certain time period (and area if you like). It still leaves very much room for personal creativity, but at the same time you kind of "re-create" a piece of time different from your present moment. I think it's very cool and interesting and it appeals to my imagination.

I'm on the same track with 'Mo here; I'll build my '50 Chevy "Period correct w/ minor "invisible" upgrades". For practical and economical issues it's reasonable to use some modern stuff (like the mentioned battery), but it's still possible to make a time machine out of it. I'll try to make the car look and feel like it was built in 1954 or 1955, haven't decided the exact year limit yet.

 

The line has been blurred and the true traditional cars are few and far between....

In the '90s We were building cars as close to exactly like a 40s-60s hot rod as we could. The idea was A: to show the Street rod guys that you could build a really bitchin hot rod for waaaaay less than $60k. And B; Most importantly.to build the cars that our fathers and grandfathers so fondly remember driving, and try to live that experience.
The best part about our cars were that we put them together in our back yards or small garages at home on our spare time often with Parts that the street rod guys were litterally throwing away. People had forgotten what it was about and we wanted to put the FUN back in it.
That being said, there were many things that happened that wouldn't be called traditional. one of them being suede paint...It was a cheaper solution to the shiny paint that many of us DID want but couldn't afford..I also think that subconsiously Suede paint gave a car a soft technicolor hue that emulated the covers of 50s magazines..and air bags?........well, they're fun!
With evolution the street rodders jumped on the traditional band wagon several years ago and the ammount of easter egg billet barges has seriously declined. however, anything goes now days a tpi in a suede shoebox is somewhat common place as are mustang IIs, s-10 frames AC power windows etc etc...
Paraphrasing Hop Up..It's about inovation,and interpretation without inventing too much....

The only thing I know for sure about what we do, is that if you're enjoying your car for the right reasons the only line that matters is the dotted one in the middle of the road.

Oh yeah, and one more thing...If you're leaving a show and see a car broken down...stop and help them out....you'll learn soon that the line that makes this hobby great is the one between us and the "normal" drivers.

 

HERES WERE I DRAW THE LINE____________________
keep it simple.


Custom is just that NOT stock, a change made to a car just because the owner wanted it changed.

Original/Stock is all Original parts, looks factory fresh ( consumables aloud to be changed ) new oil, new battery, new belts ect. as long as its the exact same brand/type part it replaces, no upgrades.

Traditional Looks/runs like it did in a specific time period, and uses parts from that time period to achive the look or preformance.


My car is a custom, it aint stock, and I have used modern parts to achive a look and preformance I wanted, so it aint traditonal therefore it must be a custom and it looks/preforms the way I want it do. and if you dont like it, I dont really care.

 

This number 6 thing would be off topic for the HAMB. If the car does not look like it could step out from 1965 or earlier it does not belong here. Build what you want but don't expect it be welcomed here.

It's not a custom, for one customs have hoods.
I'm sorry if you don't understand what this place is about or what constitutes a custom. Do yourself a favor and read a little. But and old car with no hood and a bunch of surface rust does not cut it as a custom. Read posts by Rikster and James D.

 

It's not a custom, for one customs have hoods.
I'm sorry if you don't understand what this place is about or what constitutes a custom. Do yourself a favor and read a little. But and old car with no hood and a bunch of surface rust does not cut it as a custom. Read posts by Rikster and James D.[/QUOTE]

I believe the OP ask for MY opinion, therefore I gave My opinion of MY car, not your opinion of my car, or my Opinion of your car.
As for no hood, its a build pic and it has a hood now, it also has lights, bumpers and working turn signals which it didnt have in the pic.

 

it's a stock bodied car, despite what works it's not a custom, maybe at least nose and deck it, shave something, a custom is all about the body... so regardless of what the op asked, if you don't understand the question in the context of the HAMB you fail at answering it. or for that matter understand the HAMB.

 

My shop truck is my personal ride also... still has drop ibeam front axle... stock leafs all around. disc brake conversion and some upgraded brake componets... saftey 1st no matter what.... but kicking it old skool with orig suspension is more awesome to me than a chassis swap or m2 kit... Yes IFS rides great and all that but I personally like to look under a ride these days... see the painted frame... detail taken in for mounting stuff... wire and brake line routing... Any car can have body work and big motor and be low... takes time and $ to make 1 right where it looks good underneath as much as up top... If you just want to have a daily and put it on late model chassis there is nothign wrong with that to find parts easier but it will never be traditional style.... Yeah baggin something isnt traditional but in argument cut coils and 2" of ground clearance isnt feasible on the roads around here...

Kustoms are pieces of art... and has to have flow... modifications... things to catch your eye... smoothed this and that... frenched in this. shave this... a true custom isnt an overnight thing. But who cares if anyone else likes it... its your is the first and foremost and build it how you want to... as long as you dont put some 4wd chassis under it we wont kick ya in the nuts or put some stupid looiking 22's on it..