If time permits this weekend, I may start blasting my frame, depends on how long it takes me to get the cab off and motor out, and how much football I indulge in. Some questions..... 1. When you guys blast a frame, do you grind/burn out the rivets in the crossmembers, blast there mating surfaces, then paint them and bolt the frame back together to get all possible rust. Or do you leave it together??? 2. What type of primer and paint do you reccommend for the frame? I would think an epoxy or enamel would be best......Is there anything out of a spray can that is any good (and I mean REAL good)? I don't figure I will be able to knock it out in one setting, and would like to get it covered asap (hence spray cans) but if there is a superior gun product I'd rather use that. Sirst timer here just looking for some ideas and suggestions, Thanks
Welp...when I had my 34 frame blasted I left the crossmembers rivited in place. NO way you're going to re-rivet them unless you have a rivet gun, bucks and red-hot rivets. I primered mine with an acid etch primer [variprime in my case] before the rust began to flash. After i get my frame holes filled, rails notched and all bracketry welded in place, I'll hit the bare spots with more variprime and then the usual primer, high-build primer and paint.
I would suggest leaving the rivits in and just sand around them. An epoxy primer would work good you can use a cheep enamel, or a frame coating paint. If you have a compressor to run the sand blaster then I would use at least a harbor freight spray gun for more even coverage than a spray can.
Depends. If you're building a "show" vehicle, take it all apart, blast, then coat it. If it's a driver, I'd leave it all together, blast it, and coat it. Rattle can primers and paints tend to go on very very thin. Not a good thing for a frame, imo. If you don't mind the look, you can spray or brush on Rustoleum products, POR products, etc. If it's gotta be beautiful, then a catalyzed primer and catalyzed top coat is the way to go. Just my $0.02
Something I learned the hard way on mine, blast it and do all your welding before you paint it. I had mine powdercoated then ground it back off to fix stuff, then had to paint it in those areas......oh well, live and learn... If I had to do it all over again, I would have got it all blasted and some kind of protective primer, then weld/notch/brackets etc. Then fit everything and drill holes for stuff and get it all mocked up (frame stuff), then take it all back apart and clean and paint it. That way when you put it all back together theres less chance of scratching/ruining your nice paint or powdercoat job...
This is the best, and correct, way to approach the project. The only thing I'd add is that if you see areas of rust lurking down in the cracks and crevis's where the X member attaches to the outer rails you can use a product like Sem's Rust-Mort or any number of other rust converters. Do this prior to applying the etch prime and make sure you clean the areas after application. The reason for doing it BEFORE you spray the etch primer is that any rust that is not properly treated will creep under the etch prime and continue to rust...even after you paint the frame.
Thats what I intend to do, blast and prime get everything fit and welded and then reprime/paint. I have a gun and compressor and the ability to paint it, thought it might be quicker at theis stage to use cans to keep down the flash rust and then go over it once it is all back together with the gun and some quality stuff? As far as rivetting goes, there is only going to be a few original crossmembers left in the truck. I will be adding new ones. I have replaced a lot of rivets with grade 8 bolts on newer vehicles (mainly shackles for lift/lowering kits) and then tack welded the nut once torqued. Once rivets come out I'm not putting them back in. Just curious if this is "hotrod" acceptable and if anyone has done it. While it will be a driver (on pretty days mind you), it won't be a "show" truck but I still don't want any rust creeping up anywhere.
Leave the rivets. Blast it as best you can, then metal prep with POR-15's Metal Ready. This gives it a zinc coating (like OEM's are using nowadays). Then spray your favorite primer, or just use POR-15 black like I did. Turned out great and will last a stoooopid long time.
Bug bomb painting is really for patio furniture. A frame is something you don't want to be redoing often, so a good primer/paint job is the only way to go. My suggestion is to stick with a good line, like Dupont or similar, and use their products all the way through. There are epoxy primers that need no addtional etching primer, and then you can top coat them within a certain time frame with the color catalyzed paint you choose. A good paint job should hold up for years and years, and will deflect dropped wrenches and stones pretty well. As mentioned, even those HF gravity feed guns that go on sale for $ 10-$15 are a good deal. I've done a lot of painting with them, even though we also have some better ones, and I don't feel bad if I am too tired at night to clean it out and have to chuck one in the trash. Buy yourself a big box of rags and a 5 gallon can of wash (cheap) thinner for cleanup. A bottle of silicone and grease remover is also great for degreasing before you spray. A frame is a great place to learn spraying techniques and I have done more than one with a HF touch up size gun. Don
I asked about rivet removal when I started my '35. When a rivet is set, it expands and fills the hole completely. When you use bolts, there is a bit of extra space. The suggestion made to me was "if you're going to remove the rivets and use bolts, weld the x-member to the frame after it's bolted." RB
I've been debating on boxing the frame and making my own crossmembers that way I can rout the exhause and cage the driveshaft. So I may go that route..... Two of my crossmembers are lying in the bed. The previous owner got happy with a saws-all....... So I will be welding those back together anyhow..
Heres the skinny If your going to box ,Buy square tubing and use your crossmembers ,I have been screwing around for months a 32 frame I built ,And descided after bodywork and grinding down high spots from warping I should of built a model a frame and channel,Im going the show route
forget rattle cans. get it clean and go with a POR15 or eastwood encapsulator or chassis coating. Or if you go multi stage then start with a 2k epoxy and top coat with the highest solids level 2k urethane you can find. A lot of the coatings like POR15 dry so freaking slow you can honestly pull off a nice brush streak free job with brushes/rollers, no gun, no overspray needed. (Seriously) Just wear rubber gloves no matter if you spray or brush or you will be wearing these super tough coatings for a long time lol!!
My 2 cents. A blasted white surface (we use 40/70 post consumer recycled glass) followed ASAP with a quality etch primer is as close to A+ Best as you can get. There are other options, They are expensive and not always located near by. Sequence is important too. Putting a lot of effort in to finish quality prior to a full mock up, fit up, is usually detrimental to the finish of a finished frame. I have pulled frames apart, down to the barest components. But the ability to fixture for reassembly is important. I am not sure if or what frames were hot or cold riveted. We have riveted ours cold. Driven 3/8" mild steel cold with a 6g gun which is right at it's limit. As someone mentioned rivets are compressed and fill the hole, bolts stretch and decrease in diameter when tightened. My buddy from Berwick Maine has extensive aircraft air frame experience. He has taught me a great deal but he has forgotten more than I will ever know. It is not unusual to re-blast 2 or 3 times during a frame re-build. Wet on wet is preferred but if you have pits you want get rid of it is not possible. So be prepared for bloody fingers sanding a frame. Good Luck! Jon
If POR15 is used initially to protect the frame from rust until it gets epoxied down the road will there be any issues with a quality epoxy, like PPG or Dupont, bonding with the POR15 under it? I want to initially protect the frame, assemble the chassis then disassemble and then final paint. I am concerned that just primer will not protect from rust sneaking under it. From what I've read mixing stuff can cause trouble and that's why I ask specifically about POR15. Thanks.
Por-15 will peel in a few years, no matter what the prep. Go with a good primer and paint. Rustolum Rusty metal primer is the toughest primer out there. Buy it by the quart, thin and shoot.
Not exactly. I've got POR-15 painted surfaces on my Olds that I built in 81-82, that still look fine. I've been spraying POR-15 silver on blasted chassis for the last 10 years on builds. Use it as a primer, 2 coats, a day apart, then put on their Chassis Coat semi or gloss black finish coat. Tough paint! Also bonds to the metal so well, it helps prevent rust 'creep out' from under overlapped panels, like your riveted ones.
I'd agree... although there are several others with similar formulas that guys have had good luck with. I have personally had POR paint last years without any problems. My son Jamie and I did his Mustang suspension in the mid-90's and it looked shiny and new when he sold the car in '09...
I do a lot of sandblasting using Black Beauty. I blast all crevasses real good to remove as much rust as possible. Then when primering, I set the spray gun to no fan and blast the primer into the space between the frame and attached brackets. After they stop dripping, I wipe off the runs and then finish in a conventional maner. If you don't do this you WILL get rust at the joints as the sand will get into places where the paint will not go when you spray in a normal way. I have painted hundreds of frames and I have seen this problem appear after a few years or less. I recomend DuPont industrial finishes, Colar VF-525 high solids primer and Imron 3.5 HG High Gloss Polyuerthane color. The filling qualities are fabulous and the shine is great but has some orange peel, that I think looks good on a frame. (can be thinned out to remove most peel) The paints will require a little testing on a test surface as they are THICK (you would swear that it would never go through the gun) and require a 1.6 tip on the gun. The amazing thing though, is that they do not run easliy! They do take a few days to dry though, so keep them out of the dust. After a week it is a very tough finish. The best part is that the Black Industrial is about 1/4 the cost of regular high quality finishes. (about $100/Gal, sprayable)
$0.02 It took two frames (35-40) to get solid enough parts for one frame for my project. I blasted my left and right frame halves and used etching primer. as I was about to begin working on them I just couldnt get comfortable with the corrosion I knew was lurking behind the inaccessable areas. I blew the frame apart discovered more damage than I thought, blasted the remaining areas and am now riviting the parts back together. Big Flats Rivit company has everything you need and its not that expensive. I will be welding the x-member to mainrail junctions and the fromt will be boxed for a M2 install. I'll probably have only one chance tobuild this project and I might as well do it right.
Roger It has been a while but I remember Colar. I agree it can be a problem recoating what has been blasted. I do the same with decreasing the fan but I will brush the inside that you just cant get to without making a total mess. I do the absolute best I can and have had few problems but short of immersion dipping hard to promise 110%. Jon
what about enclosed fraime rails what can i do to get them rust fre should i drill holes in the side and get a sandblasternozzle in ther or what can i do to clean out the dirt inside the rails and then get it rust free
Leave the rivets. Best frame paint I've found is Miracle paint top coated with engine enamel or any satin enamel if you don't like shiney. Paint on the Miracle paint with a brush and spray top coat as soon as the Miracle paint stops being tacky. If you let the Miracle paint dry completly you have to scuff with a scotch bright before spraying. VERY durable combo. Miracle paint - http://www.hirschauto.com/products.asp?dept=3
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