New guy in deep waters: 28 Tudor planning

Hey all. Hope to spur some conversation that'll help me get a mental plan together for the start of my 28 Tudor build. While I was around rodding (as a kid - 18 yrs) I been away from it most of my adult life...now 42 yrs.

I've finally got my starter car and a garage that can handle a lengthy project. Please comment on my immediate plans and any available insight.

As I plan to do a 2" chop (minor) I believe my attention should initially focus on the roof and crossmembers fab. My thoughts with starting here is that when I'm ready to chop I'll have a ridged top to work from that's true to the body. Thoughts

Next, i'll move to chopping it

Then, hammer/dolly and patch. I am very lucky to have a very solid car with virtually no rusted thru areas. Doors are tight and all the seams line up dead on.

For the donor top I plan to extract some station wagon top or I've heard that an 88 Ford Bronco makes a good top....well see. I have some local yards to pull from. For cutting out the donor top I thought of using a Miketa nibbler (already have one so I can avoid buying a rechargeable sawzall)

As you can tell I've got a long road ahead. I really don't have all the skills now to pull this off alone....but my father is an accomplished fabricator/rodder and will assist and guide on a case by case basis. But I would like to impress the old man that I can craft a plan and begin to move forward on his own.

Thanks for any advice in advance!

Boxcar

 

Well you've got the chop figured out, what about everything else? Frame, engine, suspension...? I'm building a tudor sedan on a 32 frame and I plan on chopping it too but that's going to be the last thing I do, not the first.

 

The correct way to do it is fix all the repairs needed on the body then chop. Basically you take the body back to new so it is like chopping one of Henrys cars right off the assembly line. Things fit better that way!

I am also doing a Tudor on a 32 style frame.

 

This advice makes sense to me, although I didnt chop mine, i would agree on the approach Tman brings to the table

 

I'm for delaying the chassis, suspension, and motor for now because money will initially be tight. I currently plan to buy a ready made highboy chassis from an outfit in evansville. My father is working a deal on an L6 1 that a buddy has had for a long time and my dad is a slow mover when it comes to working a deal on anything...so I'll let that perk for awhile.

Believe I'll hav a use for a shop dolly to set that frame on. I've got some big industrial casters that I can use. My father has one he's continually used for the past 30 years. Basically two metal saw horses mounted on a frame. Anybody got any slick ideas on one of these...I'll have to google it and see what picks come up.

Boxcar

 

I'd be inclined to begin with a chassis that you know to be true. Build it to the roller stage. Plunk the body on, shim for door fit and then start on the sheet metal work. And like others have said, the chop comes after all the mundane stuff. Somewhere in this is a good time to fit engine and trans.

 

Sounds good. As far as my replacing the top bows. I'm thinking metal tubing. What are the considerations with wood vs metal. And does the new roof float (no welds) on the bows? Is there a need for something placed between the interior metal and the bows for movement, cushion, ?? or nothing.

thanks

 

^^ What tinmann said. You need the chassis square & straight before you do any major work on the body. then you need the body bolted down tight & shimmed to where it needs to be for the doors to work right. On the A's the door alignment is pretty much controlled by shims under the door posts and the front of the cowl. If you don't have the body bolted to the chassis, it may twist when you do bolt it down & throw everything off.

For a body jig, when dad & I were working on his A we built the one in the pic below. It only took a couple of hours to make and it works great. It put the body up where it was easy to work on it.

 

If you do not have a frame at least turn your dolly into a good jig. As for the top if you fill with steel let it flaot on the bows, whether they are wood or steel, DO NOT attach the skin to the bows. The reason is you will see every bow as the top shrinks and expands as a cloud comes over on a hot day.

 

A chassis is going to mean money I don't have available. I was trying for a starting point that would allow time for the wifey to simmer down on the $$ front. While pulling that frame down to is chassis is best case....would you think that I could temp weld an X into the bottom interior of the body. I'd try to take/compare measurements to ensure all is square and weld so it's true...might be true now...not sure. Finally, lock it all down to the creaper (I' have yet to build) and continue with the body work? Not trying to be argumentative here...but If I delay for a chassis...life will suck for all involved.

Yep, the fever is in me! thanks

 

Good copy on that dolly info... Thanks for posting an example.

As far floating the bows..got that..makes sence.

As far as comming up with the correct / consistent arc of the bows. How does that happen. Do you come up with a template then ??? Have a machine shop bent them all or ?

Is there a preference of metal vs wood? Any comment on why one is preferrewd over the other?

thanks...off to the garage to get some pressing jobs (honey doos) off my list to free up some time. Will be back to the HAMB tonight! I love this board already.

 

Money is a common problem - how about this: Buy an original model 'a' chassis for a couple hundred and start on that! Learn to box it out, do the suspension and purchase an original henry piece at a time. Set your body on it and start doing the body work, what is likely to happen is taht you'll find the natural beauty and gain respect for what henry made that you might reconsider chopping the top.
Heres' one i am doing now.

 

If you were to weld an X to the bottom of the body & then chop it the body would be square. However, when you went to put the body on the frame, if the frame happened to be out a little, then the body would twist & possibly screw up the work you have done.

Are you planning on reusing an original frame/chassis? Boxing an original frame? Going with a fabricated 2X4 tube frame? Or maybe a deuce chassis? All of these questions need answered before you do ANY body mods.

This site is a wealth of information & the guys who have done it before & either have already made the mistakes or know how to avoid making them are more than willing to help out someone who is just starting out.

Bottom line, the body needs to be on a frame before you chop it. The frame does not even need to have running gear (especially in the case of a fabricated frame). Chopping the car before it is on the frame has a great possibility of causing much swearing & recutting/rewelding farther on down the line.

 

Just found out that my wireless connection makes it way to my garage (75yds or so) That's good for me!!!!

As for geting an old Henry frame....If I haddent just got back from the Evil Frog Follies....ir and had not walked by a booth showcasing their Highboy w/stainless package deal I might consider that old iron project...but I got bit! That's what I'm saving up for. I'm going fenderless so the fit/finish of the Highboy frame appeals to me. I do get the point though. I'll just have to work the chassis into my plan earlier than anticipated or determine If I can successfully mimic the mounting points on my dollie...then pray a bit!

As far as appreciating the original proportions...avoiding the chop. Well, I am 6ft tall and want to enjoy this ride for a long time...so I do want to err on the side of conservative. My father believes it'll be nice as a delivery...so that something that may happen in this build or the next...not sure. Either way, I did get talked out of closing in the rear windows...fella said that it's the most dangerout blindspot hes ever had in a car. I did have a cargo van that was the same way....that's dangerous stuff!

 

No offense, and I don't want this to come off as looking down on you. As I don't, everyone has there comfort level of building.....

....But BUILDING your hot rod instead of BUYING mail order parts is what it's all about. I lost all interest in this build when you mentioned ordering a complete chassis.

Traditional Hot Rodding = The new street rod. <----this makes me sad.

Trust me, You will feel infinitely more awesome when you build your own chassis. It will be cheaper and When someone asks you where you got it.....

Well, the frame is from a little town south of....

....and the front axle is from (name some small town).....

....and my best buddy and I made a bomber run to the swap meet in the next state and I snagged that 33-34 wishbone for $150 bucks.....

.... Then we turned around and drove across the state to a collectors estate sale....Found some good stuff there too....

....some old timer gave me that rear end when I went and bought some wheels from him.....

Building a hot rod is more than just bolting together parts. It's the experience of finding that last piece you've been looking for. It's about meeting people, getting up early to go parts hunting, drinking shitty coffee, and eating McDonalds.

Get my point?

I hope so. You'll have way more fun. Trust me....

and good luck with the build. Either way, when it's finished you'll have an awesome car.

 

You are describing my old man to a tee. His first car was an on / off again 10 year project....his second was the same 10 - 12 year deal. He is the purest you describe... That's not me, not now any way. My skills with chassis fab will have to wait till I have this one on the road and I start a second car my brother!

No offence taken, I get it. thanks for the opinion. I promise I will still have an ample oppourtunity to show my ass with dumb questions, mistakes, and the like thru this build. Hope you tune in again and don't write off my sorry chassis buying ass. I do not have the patience of Jobe.

If there had been a chassis with the body I'd probally be thinking differently...but it was not and as the new highboy frame lend themselves to fenderless cars...I believe I want to go that way.

Boxcar

 

You may want to find a ModelA Delivery to sit in before going that route. At 6 foot tall you seat will be moved back and your head will be BESIDE or BEHIND the B Pillar. Now fill in those qtr windows and you will see.............................or not

 

These are the most sensible words I've read so far in this thread. I too nearly switched off this thread when I got to the part about a ready built frame/ stainless stuff etc. If you're 6' a 2" chop is OK, but a stock roof height is a lot more comfortable. My 28 has a 4" chop, and I'm 5'10". I've had to lower my seats drastically to avoid neck strain.
I know it's your car, you can do what you want, but there's a mountain of good advice going on here.... you would be wise to heed it.
FWIW: I've built my 28 tudor on an extreme budget. I walk away from stuff that is too expensive, even if I'm desperate to snag it. And you know what? Something always turns up. I got an A frame for $100 after turning down ones for up to $500. I got a 34 chrome front axle with bones, spindles, reversed eye spring, 39 hydraulics and 47 drums all for $150. I got a perfect 47 flathead engine, complete and running, done 5000 miles on full overhaul, for $1200.
It's all about networking, visiting swap meets, and resisting the temptation to buy stuff that's overpriced.
Just my 2c.

 

FWIW I've never done any of the things I've done so far with my car before. I have about $1000 in my rolling chassis, it took me 6-8 months to gather the parts and I mock assembled it in a weekend. It would have been 5 or 6 tops if I had known I needed model A perches instead of 32. If I wanted a 32 frame I think I could put one together for another $1000 or so on top of that. But I wanted to keep it real basic for my first build. I'd probably be driving it if I hadn't bought such a poor body. But what do you do when your cheap and want a coupe. At least I've improved my welding ten fold and I'm having a great time. But on the other hand I understand your decision as I was considering it also. It was a tough choice for me. Good luck and most importantly build the car YOU want and have fun.

 

First, for the record I have not discounted any opinion tossed my way. I've been appreciative of all comments and try to specifically address them so the sender knows that I'm tuned into what they are telling me. Now a guy can pick and choose on the info he acts on though.

As far as the amount of chop....while 2" will be doable...none may be a better fit for a guy with a bad back. I'll try to find one to size up my planning with.

About the Delivery mod making some problems driving. I met a fella at the Frogs a couple weeks ago...about my heigth. He said that as he's building his second 28 Tudor (the first he closed the back windows...he said his next one will have the rear windows...tired of the huge blind spot. So

I will look into more chassis options and fabrications. Without knowing any better I'm abit intimidated with that large of a project. Is it blastfamous to purchase rails and cross members and so on...and build at home? Is there any cad lay outs that a guy can buy and have cut...for an assembly at home??

Don't banish me over the weekend fellas...this isssss my first project!

 

Are you talking about just buying a frame or a complete rolling chassis? You made it sound earlier like you were buying a rolling chassis. But now it kinda sounds like you just want a complete and ready to go frame that you can bolt your choice of suspension stuff too. I'm all for that route. I apologize if I missunderstood you earlier. I think you have a good grasp on what you want, maybe you are just a little unsure of how to get there. If you haven't picked it you yet. There is a book by Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel...How to build a traditional hot rod. I highly suggest you read this. It gives you an idea of how to build an early Ford hot rod using factory Ford parts available pre-1950. While you may not be building a car using the exact components it suggest. It will give you lot's of food for thought.

 

Wescotts has frrame blueprints online and they have been posted here if you search. Before you start you also need the Bishop and Tardell book, it is your car bible.

 

I've got some studying to do here fellas...thanks for the insight. I'll get back to yall when I move forward. I'll look to amazon for the references.

I'll also look into Wiscotts and see how that would fit me.

thanks all
Boxcar

 

Read what you wrote. You are a victum of bullshit salesmanship, 'new highboy frame' my ass - what exactly do you think was under your car to begin with? Take fenders off an original model 'a' and you have got a highboy! So you are letting some glitzy stainless gizmos, powercoated thingamabobs and a jumponitquick salesman lead you around by your wallet? What do you want, a real hot rod or a slick imitation? Far as that goes might just as well toss that rusty old body and get the newest stateoftheart fibreglass highboy body especially designed to go with the highboy frame. They probably have it in kit form and you can have it on the road in a few weeks.
What do you really want, a hot rod with soul or something that looks like a hot rod.

 

Here's one suggestion that hasn't been mentioned yet....... get out into the local car culture and meet some people. Find out who the actual builders are. Not the pros, but the guys bashing away at home making sparks fly. Volunteer your time, buy a box of beer once in a while and get yourself into a circle of talented guys. You'll be amazed at what you learn and how your confidence and skills will develop.

At some point, someone will have a Model A frame that you can see (borrow) and then you will buy some 2 x 3" and lay out your "new" frame rails. It's all part of the journey.

 

Great point, thanks...believe there's a local club and some local shows coming up in a couple of weeks.

 

Forums are a great thing...those that shotgun terse remarks only take away from these sites. my humble opinion only...


For the rest of you still tuned in. Here's the two frame examples that I'm looking at. I find myself interested in the highboy frame as it more closely follows the outline of the bodys drip edge...unlike the traditional straight frame that gets buried under the car as it travels toward the rear of the undercarrage. A small detail I know but a detail none the less.

 

What you don't want is to have it look like 213412341 other cars out there, it will cheapen it for you in the long run, if you want it to look like all other "highboys" out there then get a kit car. If I was building one I would go with the bottom frame (but you might as well get a stock one, spend a hundred in sandblasting, box it and you will be out ahead and it will be cheaper.) half of the game of rod building is being smart with your money....

sometimes less is more.... I would rather drive the car below than some $50,000 price tag clone car of every other one like it on the road. Be different.

To be honest... when I go to a show I don't even look at 25-34 anything because they are all the same, with the same highboy look.... just my 2 cents though...

Don't be timid about this... I have not done half of the crap on my truck before, but if I don't then it won't get done... that is a good attitude to have and it will benefit you in the long run.

 

I think you are misusing the term "highboy". The term does not refer or apply to a specific frame. A highboy is a car (usually a roadster) that has had the fenders removed and is sitting on top of the frame (stock body/frame relationship). A lowboy is a car that has had its fenders removed and has also had the body channeled down over the framerails. A highboy can refer to any vehicle with no fenders and the body sitting on top of the framerails.

The two pictures you posted are an "A" frame (1928-1931 Ford) and a Deuce frame (1932 Ford). A model "A" set on top of a 1932 frame is usually known as an AV8. Due to the model A body being lighter and esier to get than a deuce body and by using the Deuce frame, a hot rodder immediately had a stiffer frame than a model A, better brakes and of course a flathead V8. This made it an easy go fast recipie for the early guys.

If you go with a Deuce frame, keep in mind that the A bodies are narrower at the cowl than the 32 bodies. the frame will either need to be built with this in mind or modified after the fact. This is known as pinching the frame.

Hope this is helpful.

 

If you have a choice go with #1 frame pictured.