When you did the leakdown test, where did the air come out? that should tell you what's wrong with it. You had the valve covers off, did you notice any rockers not moving?
Some 352's have adjustable rocker arms. Start from the begining, put the engine at top dead center, #1 at the top by pulling the spark plug. Now, does the pointer on the balancer indicate TDC and the distributor point to #1? If it does the cam is aligned to the crankshaft. Recheck the rocker arm adjustment. OR did you swap rocker shafts side to side???? So you are saying instead of diagnosing the source of the tick, you just went and replaced the lifters? The tick might have been the #3 wire arcing...... How could the timing jump unless you screwed with the timing chain or there is a lot of slack in the chain from wear. This will show up when you check for #1 position.
I want to think that some of the valves are too tight.... just a little bit to tight and it wont run on those cylinders, all else being the same, and the engine ran good before, I would loosen up the rockers and start over.... I don't know if your 352 has non adjustable rockers or not, but a milled head, or a couple pushrods that are too long and the non adjustable scheme can go out the window... edit > You got me thinking, I so I looked around a little, wrong year, but maybe the same. Read down to the part about the color coded pushrods, and also about how LITTLE slack these lifters will take up.... http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6429
What you might try is to pull all the push rods and spark plugs and perform another compression test. If you have reasonable numbers straight across then you can rule out a loss of compression or problems with valves or rings and proceed to the lifters. If you are unsure about the timing, rotate the engine to TDC no. 1 and see if it lines up. If it does, then you can eliminate timing. I have to ***ume that you have points so after you have checked the timing, turn the engine over slowly and see if the cam in the distributer is opening the points completely once for every cylinder. Could be a worn distributer cam. The above should take around 15 minutes to a half hour and will help you rule out what might be wrong. Next just stand all the push rods next to each other and see if they are all the same length. If they are, rule out the push rods. Lastly, are the lifters all raising and lowering the same? Do some not move at all? If all of them go up and down the same, then the cam is probably o.k. That leaves the lifters. Did you prelube them before installation? Could the tops be compressed? Are there different lifters for different applications? Could you have gotten the wrong lifters for your present application? I am not a Ford guy so I am asking questions to jog YOUR memory and check YOUR work. Other than the above, maybe the timing gear or chain has gone south. Best of luck, John
You put the old lifters back in or replaced them? Why did you rearrange the plug wires? If the thing ran OK before (except for the tick) there's no reason to expect the cam to be worn. Chances are you put the distributor in the wrong position. Start over....Put the wires back on in the order they're supposed to be in. find TDC on compression stroke, then back up to the correct timing mark. Pull the distributor cap. The rotor should be pointing to the #1 position on the cap. If it's not close the distributor is in wrong. Hook up a timing light, turn ignition on but don't start the engine. Loosen the distributor hold down. Turn the distributor until the timing light flashes. When it flashes, tighten the hold down. Start the engine and see how it runs. Report back.
Not a Ford expert but just throwing a couple of ideas out there. Are intake and exhaust pushrods different lengths for this engine? Are the pushrods the same on both ends, or is there a specific lifter end and rocker arm end?
Do you have pictures of these broken off metal pieces? If they are on top of the valley cover, not IN the lifter valley, then probably not broken valves. Pictures would help. Also give what I suggested a shot.
It COULD be allot of things but the OP posted ..... "It didnt start the first time and I had to move the wires around on the distributor... It has an AWFUL misfire" That is the first place to look. Also, answer Squirrel's question about where the air came out when you did a leak down test.
Go slowly and observe what the results are. Claymart is right. Push rod ends could be different, lengths could be different. Just check and eliminate til you find the problem.
I have been caught out in the past with direction of rotation of distributor. never asume it is turning the way you think.....check it!
Nice! I love it when someone thinks of something more basic than I did! And he's a Kiwi so he knows all about things going in the wrong direction down there in the Southern Hemisphere.
Original post stated that the engine ran , but had a slight tick and a disconnected no. 3 spark plug wire. Things went down hill after the repairs (including the loss, or perceived loss, of compression). I think Hamebone64 opened a can of worms and the worms are now winning.
The "broken pieces of metal" are probably whats left of your valve stem seals....I had the same problem with the 352 in my old '63 galaxie (15 years ago) and not knowing better, tore the whole thing down thinking it was a major problem.
Quote: <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" cl***=alt2>Originally Posted by woodbox I have been caught out in the past with direction of rotation of distributor. never asume it is turning the way you think.....check it! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> We managed to finally get my cousins blown 302 windsor running on 7 cylinders badly!.....until we realised that we were ***uming that the dizzy was turning clockwise....or was that counterclockwise?! We checked with the cap off and re ran the leads in the correct order and Voi la....running on all 8!!
I think the most likely cause is a/some valves not seating. Are the rockers adjustable? Try re-adjusting them first. An open valve will kill compression, and could be a path for a crossfire.
"It sat for 17 years"- could be just the valves & guides are a bit sticky, and a couple hanging open will give you zero compression- magnified by the tune-down Sorry, I have a buddy that we say gives tune-downs, everything he touches runs worse, but he is also militant about NOT reading directions or listening to others etc. The regular juice pushrods are same-'ol same-'ol, same length unless they have been changed for milled heads & such (CJ's had slightly different length), and ball on both ends- plus it was fine "before". I would also guess that the pieces are chunks of old hardened & brittle valve seals that were also a bit sticky and broke. Time to slow down a bit, and you're getting a lot of general advice from folks with no FE experience that needs to be weeded out a bit, along with some good stuff from folks who know FE's. The ignition thing has been covered, and easy- put the wires back where they were, and install the dist correctly-get some help if necessary. Some basics for the valvetrain- first, quit running it until it's checked out- if the valves are sticking, it could get expensive. If they are sticking, your compression readings are worthless. Carefully clean all the gunk out of the heads, and check the oil drainback holes at the ends for clogging- especially the back ones. Easy to find, follow the cover gasket rail to the lower back corner, and the lowest point in the head. You should be able to see the seals inside the valvesprings- I'm betting there's a couple missing- they look like a little mushroom inside the spring, below the retainer. Might find some bits & pieces in the gunk you clean out. If so, you'll need a tool to remove the springs from the outside, and someone to help you who's done it before to help you would be a big plus. There are clamp- on tools that screw down to compress the springs, and there is also a very nice tool for FE's that works off the rocker shaft. You'll need to put a length of rope in the cylinder and hand-turn it until the piston & rope holds the valves in place before removing the springs, seals, & retainers- one cylinder at a time, and slowly- and make sure you don't turn the engine, or you might see the valve stems disappear. Once the old seal is off, you can use some Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam, whatever is your favorite, to loosen up the crud in the guides & stems- again, some experienced help is advised. Once they're loose, work in a bit of fresh engine oil, install a new umbrella seal, and re***emble. Otherwise, you can pull the heads and just do a valve job, but it probably doesn't really need one, and always try the simple stuff first- slow down and clean it up and check it out before you go any further. Going too fast without a sure direction feeds the worms
It has to be something simple, running fine before with a slight tick and now after some lifters a whole bunch of problems. Things to remember, pushrods on FE with hydraulic lifters are all the same length, both ends are the same, rocker arms are not adjustable on hyrdaulic 352's. Lets take this slow so everyone gets this straight, replacing lifters on a FE requires pulling valve covers, rocker arms, dizzy, intake manifold, sometimes waterpump and the valley pan. When installing the lifters make sure the little oil port feeding the lifter isn't plugged with gunk, easy to do by spinning the oil pump with a 1/4 socket attached securely to a set of extensions and a ratchet through the dizzy hole. When reinstalling intake make sure you use correct gaskets and no cork end seals just a bead of RTV or the head to intake gaskets won't seal correctly. When installing pushrods make sure that they are infact seated in the lifter, its fairly easy to get them pushed against the block around the lifter and when you tighten down the rocker shaft it will bend it.(happend to me) After you have them all in crank the motor by hand to make sure they are all moving correctly. After that, make sure you put the dizzy back right, I know you said you did but double and triple check, when you put the dizzy in it has to go down over the oil pump driveshaft and it is fairly tricky to do, if it doesn't your dizzy won't be down all the way and won't be fully engaging the cam gear and you won't have oil pressure. If you didn't make a mark when you pulled the dizzy, bring the number one cylinder to TDC on compression and check the position of the rotor, it should be pointing toward the 3rd cylinder back on the left hand bank. Make sure you cap is on straight, your wires are in the correct order, and everything is tight. Everything worked fine before you messed with it, so it was most likely something you did wrong going back together.
Did you turn the engine over to get the lifters out? If you did, it probably wasn't in the same position as it was when you pulled the distributor. I always submerge new lifters in oil and use a large phillips screwdriver to push the inner piston down to fill the lifter with oil and get the air out. The lifters might not be pumping up to push the valves. Check the rockers to make sure they all move the same amount. You can't loosen individual rockers but you could loosen all of the rocker shaft bolts a few turns, disconnect the coil wire and crank it over with the starter to pump oil into the lifters.
All FE pushrods are not the same lenght. There where .030 & .060 longer and shorter versions so you can adjust valves. You are supposed to completely collapse the lifter and measure the distance between the rocker tip & valve stem. My father bought a new 66 ford with a FE it developed a noisy lifter and the dealership installed a longer pushrod to quiet it down. The valve stem seals do commonly get hard & brittle and clog the return holes. I have loosened the rocker stand bolts and installed shims under them to gain clearance when installing a bigger cam. OldWolf
distributor in 180 degrees in the wrong direction? i know you said you are sure it went in the exact same way, but would it look the same if you put it in "backwards"? if it ran fine before you got into it the problem should lie in something you did. if it was me, i'd backtrack everything i did. take a deep breath and go back through everything you did from the beginning. ****s to do things twice but it happens to all of us (me a lot).
My mistake, but in most cases, they are. There probably would have been marking on the pushrod to state whether it was longer or shorter. But, I have never seen that before so I could be wrong.
Negatory Negatory, lets get this straight You do NOT need to pull the intake, dizzy, waterpump, or valley pan to replace the lifters on an FE You will, however, need one of those tools that grabs the snap ring groove in a lifter to pull them out- once in a while you can do it with lifters that are very free with a long screwdriver or strong magnet. Once a lifter is out of the bore, you can manipulate it over to one of the "open" areas between the ports and pull them out one by one with a magnet, get them back in the same way, and some long screwdrivers & magnet or similar to fuss them into the bores. Pretty easy once you've done a couple, and MUCH easier than pulling & replacing an 80+lb intake, retiming the ignition, etc. One can also replace a head gasket on an FE without pulling the intake- I've even done it on a '66 Comet with shock towers
No, but to do it right you do so you can make sure the bores are fine and the oil feed to the lifter isn't plugged. I mean, you're going to the trouble to put lifters in, you might as well only have to do it once and not got get it all back together and still have something wrong.
You said you changed plug wires and plugs. First thing you did wrong was think you had the dist. in right.Also you probably got the firing order screwed up. Fords with non-adjustable valves are notorious for bending valves,pushrods and breaking springs when cranked up with the timing and firing order screwed up. The 2 dead cylinders both probably have bent valve stems and are hung open.
Pure baloney- where did you find that particular little factoid? You might booger some valves if the cam timing was off, but the ignition? C'mon, Chebbie guy, give it a rest- they all have the same basic parts and function in the same fashion, even your blessed Chebbies
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