Hi Everyone, I am new to the H.A.M.B and need some help with a 1936 Plymouth four-door sedan I just bought. I have always dreamed of having a street rod and hope to use this car to make that dream come true. The wheelbase is 113 inches with the track at 56 inches in the front and 58 inches in the rear. Since these dimensions are smaller than most cars I have tracked down that have had a frame swap or front clip swap, I would like to know what I should get for a donor vehicle with similar wheelbase and track. The goal is to be able to add front disc brakes, power or at least rack and pinion steering, updated smooth ride with a more modern small V8 or V6 engine and automatic transmission. It would be nice to stay all Mopar if possible with a Dakota subframe or frame but I don't know what donor vehicle will fit. There are a lot of cars and trucks with S-10 frames and Mustang II suspensions. I want the car to look right with wheels located properly in the wheel wells. Also, from what I can find, I will probably have to stay early 80s to keep a carbureted engine. Any ideas/thoughts would be appreciated. Jerry in Wyoming
Would be called install a late rear on the stock springs, cut the stock front end off and install something else on the original frame, and bolt in whatever motor suits your fancy. I mean, you can try a frame swap, but the time you spend fabricating and re-engineering all the body mounts, radiator support, and so on will take twice as long and cost twice as much as if you'd just stuck with what's already there and used any of the dozens of already to use aftermarket pieces you can buy.
Use the stock frame. While I chose to keep the stock straight axle the remainder of the work I did to mine is inline with what you want to do. Did you ride in it yet? My 37 rode like a dream, it's not a race car by any means but more like riding a couch down the highway. Look at my albums for a few build pics.....
A friend had the same project. He has a 36 Dodge 4 door. He bought a complete Dakota running gear, but after studying the swap for months he decided it was too much work and kept the original frame. Another friend has a 36 Plymouth with a Fatman Mustang II. He is running a MOPAR 8-3/4 inch rear on parallel leafs. He had a 318 in it for a long time but recently replaced it with a 360. I believe he is running the OD automatic transmission. This car has been all over the country. Very Reliable.
I generally agree with those sbove recommending you stay with the stock frame, at least as a basis for your build. Also, there is a reason that Fatman, Ch***is Engineering, Heidt's and several other suspension kit makers have survived and prospered. There stuff WORKS! A little more expensive than a salvage yard 'clip', many of which do perform satisfactorily when properly installed, but usually requiring various compromises along the way. Depending on what your projected total cost is for build this car, a $2000 front end with good suspension, brakes and steering, and that fits with your existing sheet metal, hardly seems disproportionate to the likely total cost of your build. Not only do you have a good result, but you have a better product to sell when that time comes. It's worth thinking about it before you decide. Ray
Jerry, keep the original frame, as its got basically straight front ch***is rails.........put a Fatman, Ch***is Engineering, Heidts or update with a Posies setup or similar style front end under it, late model diff with say Posies springs, etc.........go thru Street Rodder etc and get the catalogs, checkout whats available now, contact the various shops etc but don't even consider a frame swap, more trouble than they are worth, unless you have access to the equipement and knowledge to replace the floor, etc........whilst I have not played with a 1936 Plymouth I have played with Mopars since 1970 and believe me you will get more achieved keeping the original ch***is in it than by going the frame swap or subframe clip............o/k, its my 2cents worth but heres my mopars........regards, Andyd
The stock frame is the only one that will ever fit right. Check out Butch's they have many bolts ons for the stock ch***is. http://www.butchscoolstuff.com/
I so appreciate all of the responses to my information request. You have pretty well convinced me that I should stay with the stock 1936 frame, which I need to examine carefully for cracks and rust. If it turns out good, how do I know what donor car or truck to use to do a clip swap? I can't find any examples of someone who has clipped a 1936 Plymouth. I understand that the track of the donor vehicle needs to be close to the track of the 1936 which is 56 inches in the front and 58 in the rear. Maybe I am looking for too much but I would like the donor vehicle to supply not only the suspension but a small V8 or V6 engine, automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes and air conditioning (maybe even some interior like front and back seats). What would be the best donor vehicle to supply all this? To stay with a carbureted engine I think I need to stay with something in the early 80s or before. Is it a big chore to swap in a fuel injected engine? I see vehicles like 50s pickups that have been clipped with everything from Camaro and Volare to Mustang II and S-10. Since most of these donor vehicles do not have the same track, I get pretty confused. Your help would be great. I am contacting companies that specialize in mounts and hardware to do the clips. From looking at their parts lists Online, I find that they specialize in Ford and Cheverolet and have not found any that have a kit for a 1936 Plymouth. Thanks for your responses. Jerry
Stock frame, stock suspention, good enough for '36 then it's sure as hell good enough for today, hell it's even hydralic brakes! As for cracks and rust, throw a tape measure on it and weld it up, there aint anything that cant be easily fixed!
Mine is a pickup, but I think they measure the same. I put disk brakes on the front with a kit, and a '73 Nova bolted right up to the stock leafs. The 225 x 15 tires center in the fenders nicely. Drives and stops great!
Thanks again to everyone who responded to help me. Lemondana, you are right, Fatman Fabrications does have a kit to put a new front suspension in the truck. I also found that Butch's has a kit. ****gy, I can't tell you what the car rides like because the motor and transmission are there but it is not running. It would need fuel pump, generator, plug wires, gas tank, etc. before I could get it up and running. If it were running, I would probably give serious thought to restoring it. Now, I want a nice running, comfortable car to drive and appreciate. I think the street rod route is the best alternative. 36DodgeRam, nothing works like success. Do you remember or could you measure your track on the front and back? Mine is 56 inches front and 58 inches rear. What beside a 73 Nova would swap in the front? What axle did you use in the rear? Whose kits did you use for both swaps? The pickup looks great. What are you running for engine, transmission and rear end? Thanks for all the help. Jerry
This is a subject that get hashed and rehashed here weekly. I'm glad that you hve decided to keep your stock frame under that car. So many people just starting out think that swinging the whole thing onto a later model ch***is is going to be the easy way out... It seldom is! Here is where there will be some contention - Do not p*** go, do not collect 200.00, do not consider anything but a Pinto or Mustang II under that car. Everything else that has been suggested is too wide, period. The G.M. clips mentioned have added extra bonus of having the steering box located right where the radiator wants to go. The Dakota is about 3" wider than you need. The Pinto/ Mustang II is right at 56" off the donar car, and if you go to a set of Granada rotors, your 57" or so. The steering lands in the right place, and the geometry is spot on for a car of your's weight and size. There are a couple pf wy to go about it too. If your doing this for the first time, everybody and their second cousin offers a kit. I'm not a fan of Fat Man's stuff, but any body else is worth considering. I know that '74 and later Pintos and Mustang II are still common wrecking yard finds around here, so my prefered method has always been to grab a complete front clip and trim the crossmember to fit the front frame rails of your car. I also much prefer strut rods to strutless lower arms, because most dont put the rear most attachment points in double shear. Look up H.A.M.B. member Elpolacko and his posts on Mustang II stuff and get an education on this deal, you'll be very happy you did. As far as a rear end goes, You might look into the 8 1/4 stuff that came out of Mopars last generation of the "A" body cars. Narrow enough top do the deal and still damn strong, not to mention common.
Thanks ROADSTER 1927 I will look for JW Rod Shop and see what they offer. Thanks need louvers? I will look at old posts as you recommend. I would like to keep the bolt pattern the same from front to back axle. What do you recommend for donor vehicles for the rear that would mate with the Mustang II? Would S-10 also work for the front clip? I want to do all of the work on my street rod myself to try and keep the cost down - kind of like they did it years ago swapping pieces and parts. Now it is kind of hard since they quit putting carburetors on engines in the early 80s. Jerry
The '30s and '40s Mopars handled and rode well in stock form. Unless the frame is warped or twisted from collision damage or severely compromised by rust, use the stock frame. To belabor the obvious, the stock frame and body were designed to bolt together. Front sheet metal alignment on any car of this vintage is challenging with the car sitting on a good straight stock frame, try to put it on a frame that was not made for it, and front sheet metal alignment is going to be your worst nightmare.
Naw, p*** on the S-10 front end. It's the only G.M. front end that is narrow enough at 54", but it's steering box is in a very unfortunate place. Just last week a young guy here on the board had a very vague post about putting a rack and pinion on a front end. Turns out he had done a S-10 front end on a '36 Chevy pickup, and I was one of the people that told him not to a bit earlier, 'cause, you guessed it, he would have problems with the grill and steering box... Now what to do? The Mustang II is popular because it works and fits right. My stock crossmembered Pinto front end under my '48 plymouth avatar has been there for almost twenty years and 200,000 some odd miles. Spend some bucks if you need too, just do it right the first time!
My daughter- in- lay called and wants me to move the 36 plymouth from the shop to their house so my son will have more time to work on it. The MOPAR frames of the 30's were very strong. and the front frame rails curve so with a Mustang II front suspension you don't need dropped spindles.Ours has an disc rear 8.8 out of a 80's lincoln mark, and we have the granada rotors for the front. You can use chevy rotors and a compact chevy or s 10 rear to have wheels match.
Thanks need louvers? and timothale. You have convinced me to stay with a Mustang II front suspension. Could I just buy the crossmember and put a donor Mustang II on it or is it just as cost effective to buy a new Mustang II setup from a reputable supplier? What year Mustang II donor car will work? What year and type Ford will work for the back axle? Is it best to stay with a carbureted engine or can you salvage or buy wiring to use the more modern fuel injection? You guys are life savers. It will save me tromping around junk yards trying to measure rear ends and front ends. Jerry
Nothing in the OEM MII setup is as strong as the aftermarket stuff (provided you buy quality stuff). All the stuff from a salvage yard will need to be rebuilt anyway. It might cost a little more to buy it all from a supplier, along with a crossmember and spring hats/upper control arm mounts, for your specific car, already done, but, trust me, kit is less of a h***le.
****gy, I know it has been a while. You recommended staying with stock front suspension on my 1936 Plymouth. Where can I get rebuild kits for the steering components like the gear box and the springs and the shocks, etc.? I am having a hard time finding these new components. Would you trust the old suspension for stopping and carrying an updated drive train - like a V-8 engine with automatic transmission? I appreciate your experience and viewpoint. Jerry
I would also suggest stock frame with Fatmans front. would stay away from posie's for the rear end as bracketry just isn't up to the quality I would use. Brent at fatmans is a super guy and makes a great product. Cadillac Dave
ever considered a small truck front end other than S10? check out the steering box placement and measure the track width.
The Jalopy Journal
