Features Ford Thunderbolts Photos Wanted

Headed to Henderson, NC for the weekend at the 10th Annual East Coast Drag News Hall of Fame & Car Show. Hope to see lots of Fords & Mercurys from the 60s & maybe meet a few HAMBers.

 

I was really wanting to go but my boy has his State Tournament this weekend in Baseball & I won't be able to go. Get some pic & post them!
I've heard this is one AWESOME show!

 

Here's a real one that's going on the Mecum auction.
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_d...a&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DA1011_S141.1

 

Can you post a link so we can see what his car brings if it sells?
Thanks for this info; Tom S. in Tn.

 

Nice looking car. I recall selling a set of take apart race headers to one of the previous owners, had Brent Hajek deliver them for me at one of the Columbus Meets.

Car had a dash mounted tach in 1964. Someone must of filled the bracket holes in? Need to get the Apron Struts reinstalled, the shock towers will cave in if you don't. It certainly will be interesting what it will bring.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Dennis,
Were they all delivered with tachs mounted on the dashboards? Were they all Rotunda tachs?

Kevin

 

No, the burgundy cars had column mounted Sun 8,500 tachs. There may be at least one white car that did not have a dashboard mounted tach. Allegedly, there are no bracket holes, nor can the tach be seen in a circa 1964 picture.

There are a few anomilies similar to this, i.e. the quality disclaimer tag never being installed on the glove compartment door, etc ... .

Regards,
Dennis

 

Thanks, that's a bit more like it. Do have an example of such in print?

The mid 13's are examples printed in various vintage magazines where Thunderbolts were quoted for times. As such the September 64 HotRod (Big John-Willys cover) that provoked my question lists some low 13's from the white cars of Marv Yougman winning Stock Eliminator with a 13.23 and Clester Andrew winning S/S with a 13 flat at 115 but later losing in Stock Elimnator do to a foul (start?)....

My problem is that these cars awesome as they were are now more legend than reality. Every Ford guy with a half ass clone and hint of history talks about whipping Hemi Darts at half throttle. I'm more interested in real recorded performance as delivered or modified stating with a Low-Mid-High riser, Tunnel Port, M/T Hemi heads or SOHC 427,what trans and any possible details not lost to time.

 

The Youngman car often ran in higher altitude, thin air where the cars usually ran slower than average times compared to the rest of the nation ... and not all class wins were full, on it, hard run wins ... some were bye runs or shut down early to save the car if the win was assured. One can't judge just by the listed results for a class win without knowing the circumstances.
Joel

 

Many T-bolts were running into the 10's toward the end of 1964. Phil Bonner was the first door car to run into the 10's at Mason Dixon Dragway in his T-bolt.

The Hemi Darts you talk about were no ball of fires either when released from Hurst. There are many stories about how lousy the engines were when brand new. It took the racers working on the cars over time to make them fast. They were also built 4 years later then a T-bolt. I would hope they would be a bit faster with 4 more years of development time. After all it had a has a Hemi, right???

Like Joel said don't believe everything you read in Hot Rod. There were lots of games played at the NHRA meets(kind of like it is now with the Drag Pac's and Cobra Jets). Pick up a copy of CARS Magazine and read the results from the 1964 Cecil County Factory Showdown or Eastern Drag News with the results of a match race at 75-80 Dragaway. There you will find out how fast these cars really went. Also remember when they ran SS they had 7" rock hard tires on non-preped tracks. These cars really shined on 10" tires in AFX or match race trim. Driving a 500+ horsepower car on 7" tires had to be interesting to say the least. Mr. Bonner said it was like driving on ice. Gas Ronda figured out the 7" tires though and won it all in NHRA in 1964.

I wouldn't question the reputation of these cars because of some guy who probably doesn't know what Dearborn Steel Tubing is or that a T-bolt had a FE engine (not a 460) says....

 

As Joel mentioned, that was at altitude. See attached. Times were quicker running in match race or FX trim, than legal S/S. Of course track conditions, location, altitude, and weather were also important factors.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Anybody have a picture they can post of what one of these tachs looked like & it mounted on the column?

 

Regards,
Dennis

 

Dennis, thanks for the Picture.
When I got home last night I looked at an old Muscle car Magazine article that had an article about the Phil Bonner Thunderbolt & I saw that it had one mounted on the column. I'll have to compare photo's but I believe it is the same one. I do know that it's mounted on the column in that car as well.

Dennis, what were some of the other differences from the maroon cars & white cars?

 

Dennis,
I'm going to the auction Saturday just to see this car as well as the lightweight Galaxie.

 

Alan, How goes the 65 restoration ?

 

Geoff, About ready to put some color on it. I've been too long on this car so I'm ready to make some progress.

 

Dennis:

While at Bob Ford I built a new '63 Ford 390 4brl for a customer who wanted to run it in the appropriate NHRA stock class, and it ran 13's on 7" tires. (It was fully blueprinted) That was at 3850 lbs. Your numbers on the production T-Bolts are accurate, and the as-delivered Hi-Riser engines were somewhat better than the assembly line 427's for tolerances, but nowhere near Les Ritchey level performance. Dave Lyall

 

Alan,

Hope that you will take some photos for us.

Regards,
Dennis

 

Obviously the exterior color. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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The burgundy cars were built from running production 289 HiPo cars, however the white cars were built from partially assembled vehicles with front bumper, hood, front fenders, radiator assy, engine assy, trans assy, driveshaft, fuel lines, exhaust sytem, interior, side windows, RH sun visor, RH windshield wiper, fresh air ducts, etc ... deleted. They were rollers and had brakes. <o></o>
<o></o>
The burgandy cars had coat hooks, RH Sun Visor removed not deleted, column mounted 8,500 Sun tachs, Voltage Regulator mounted on LH Front Fender Apron instead of on the radiator support, exhaust header balance tube and mufflet inlet pipe connection fabricated differently, C3AE-6090-K High Riser Cyl Heads, rocker panel filler plates not deleted, no quality disclaimer plate installed on glove compartment door, no speedometer cable assy installed, Plexiglass front windshield (Brannan, Bob Ford, Tasca cars, possibly others), plexiglass back window with retaining clips, special RH Upper Control Arm Shaft to stagger front wheels (noted on Brannan, Bob Ford, Ed Martin, and Ronda cars, probably on the others), carpeting instead of rubber mat (Bob Ford, Ronda, Leal cars, possibly others), no 427 fender ornaments (Bob Ford car), Headlamp Assys modified differently for air duct clearance, Extended spindles (Bob Ford car), Greater center distance for mounting Apron Strut Supports to Cowl, 2x2 tubing for Transmission mount to rocker panel, Track Bar Crossmember and Driveshaft Loop fabricated differently, larger Battery Box, 1963 Fairlane Fiberglass Front Bumper with 1963 Fairlane Parking Lamp Assy (Brannan, Bob Ford, and Bob Ford Automatic car), Fuel Line routing slightly different. I'd imagine there are others. <o></o>
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Regards,<o></o>
Dennis<o></o>

 

will do Dennis

 

Dave,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Was this a solid tappet 330 hp Police Interceptor or 300 hp hydraulic 390? I believe the hydraulic tappets ran out of steam at 4,500. I understand the 330 PI was a good combination for stock class.<o></o>
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The other thing I never understood were the 1964 427 T-Bolts and Ltwt Galaxies sold with an Lincoln HX automatic. Everyone I spoke to that bought one new were told by (a certain individual at) Ford they were the "hot ticket" and when they got the car they fell flat on their face. Complains I heard were either 1-2 shift tie up eventually burning the bands out, or they wouldn't shift into high under wide open throttle. <o></o>
<o></o>
Most of the T-Bolts were quickly converted to a four speed. I think only a handful ran the automatic the whole season, i.e. - Bob Ford Automatic car, Dockery Ford and Friendly Ford on the East Coast , and Wendle Ford on the West. I believe, Les Ritchey also ran an automatic at times in his T-Bolt, perhaps he was tasked to do some development work for Ford? I realize high stall converters were in their infancy, I don't think a full manual main control existed back then, and of course the C6 was not yet released to production. Anybody ever figure out back in 1964 how to make an HX Cruise-O-Matic work?<o></o>
<o></o>
Regards,<o></o>
Dennis<o></o>

 

Dennis K, Thanks for the attachments....... I also want to say thanks to all of those posting actual build facts about these cars.


While maybe not the historian on the subject some here claim to be I have a couple Fairlanes and I'd prefer a Thunderbolt to Hemi Dart. I also worked on a rather accurate replica about ten years ago.
In my experience over the years due to the similar size,purpose, and factory supported nature of these cars the two are commonly compaired. At times maybe a SuperDuty Tempest thrown in the conversation for good measure. This happens fequently, if the owner even has an actual 64 Fairlane it's normally a hardtop with modern wheels and of course it's a real Thunderbolt. If you were to talk Super Stock Galaxies, the Impalas and Catalinas regardless of the exact year tend to come up too now don't they.... Straining out the bull is what I'm getting at not bagging on one of my favorite cars of all time. The guy with the Galaxie and hardtop clone is a great example of what I'm talking about. Now maybe a guy like that can't tell an FE from a 460 or anything about DST but even my ten year old self had a jaded tale of Thunderbolts to tell not much unlike most of this thread.

The times I posted were from completely separate events from two different cars, in different parts of the country. You really think HotRod in 64 covered up the real times? Why because you think Chevy paid for more advertising or something ? While many contain errors and advertisements I've never seen the out and out bull in vintage print like we have today. Yes not every win is full on, shit happens, bad tracks, poor judgements in tuning, different drivers, maybe one driver got laid between rounds and the other didn't. Any run is still a reference to the range of what these cars did. Now with the high altitude that's on me for not paying attention to where the run was made.

If I was mistaken in thinking having some real unbiased numbers might be of interest to a thread on drag cars no big deal. I'm glad to continue digging this stuff up. I'm still the guy who asks "what's in it and what does it run" when everyone else is stuck on where the chalk marks are.

 

Checked the auction site and it sold.


<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Lot</st1lace> S141.1
1964 Ford Fairlane
427 CI, Automatic
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Sold Price: $245,000 <o></o>


Regards,
Dennis

 

The Thunderbolt at Mecum sold for $245,000.00 yesterday. Looked like a pretty nice car overall.

 

trouble attaching pictures.

 

more

 

Were the T-Bolts delivered with WAR cases? Did all the K code cars come with them?

Kevin

 

Dennis, Thanks for the help here.
So what your saying is some of the maroon cars had carpet instead of the rubber mat?

 

The DSO parts lists shows C2AW-A, which I believe is correct. Back some time ago, I bought a Carrier Assy, 31T axles, and some other components from a second group car that the original owner pulled out shortly after he purchased the car and put away for years. It was a C2AW-A, which is a large bearing carrier, but I don't believe is Nodular Iron. I believe the C4AW-B is the first NI Carrier.

No idea what was used in the 289 HiPo cars. It was 28T axles, so it may not of used the large bearing carrier. Bob Mannel from the Fairlane Club should know.

Regards,
Dennis