OK, this may be the wrong area for this but here goes. i've found a 302 out of an '87 Lincoln to put in my shoebox Ford. It comes with an AOD, which I plan to rebuild and use. I plan to use Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and intake (carbureted) and I plan to use 3.73 gears in the rear end (I'm gonna swap it out with an 8.8-inch) Car will be mainly street driven, maybe smoking the occasional Honda at the stoplights I'll run a 2,000 stall converter in the trans. My question is, what cam should I pick? I'm looking at an Edelbrock #2221 (adv. dur. 298/302, LSA 112 degrees, .520" lift on both intake and exhaust) and it seems like that's a little too much duration. I want to get something that'll work with the heads, so my first thought was to go with that cam, but if a different one works better than by all means. I prefer to have a hydraulic roller. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
If that is a roller cam motor Ford Racing makes some very good cams in the 303 series. I am running essentially the same setup as you, 90 roller cam motor, but with **** stroker to 331, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Harlan Sharp roller rockers, and an X 303 Cam. It is very streetable, has a nasty idle, and pulls from idle to at least 7000 rpms (that's as brave as I have been). I went with this one because my Son is running one in the 306 Ford in his T Bucket and it works great with his automatic and 3000 stall convertor. Summit and others carry them and the ***ociated roller rockers and they are relatively cheap. If you go on YouTube and type in X 303 cam you will be able to hear a lot of cars idling and running with this cam. They are very popular with the 5.0 set. Don Here, I found an old video of my Sons T bucket the first time we fired it up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cITbECTLJh4
I ran a Ford Motorsport E303 with hogged out stock heads, 9.0:1 flat top pistons and a Weiand Stealth intake and was pleased. I'd think with the investment you'll have in those heads you'd want more compression. Then throw more cam at it too.
On a stock block and internals, I'd save the money on the heads and maybe just go with a nice set of used GT40 heads. I believe they came stock on a number of Explorers. Throw in an E303 cam and a Weiand Stealth intake and call it a day.
300ish HP I'd imagine. I am currently having a 302 built that I've been told will be in the 375hp range and it consists of: 302 block .040 over 10.0:1 pistons Eagle I beam rods Stock crank Edelbrock Performer RPM heads Barry Grant Demon Six Shooter intake and carbs Cam is yet to be determined
Sounds good. I can always throw more money at it later Besides, if I keep it as stock as possible for now, I can postpone the rebuilding of the ****** as well.
302 + .030 Edelbrock Performer RPM heads Edelbrock Performer RPM cam Old Ford 2x4 intake with 2 600 cfm Holleys Pertronics ignition Comp Cams roller rockers 325 hp at the rear wheels 7.2 at 95 MPH in the 1/8th
I will throw out there that the ford racing cam profiles are older grinds. I have a Trick Flow Stage 2 in my 306 and I really like it better than my B303 I used to have. Anderson Ford Motorsports makes some really nice small block cams also. For Heads, gt40 heads came on 5.0 explorers through 1996, after that they switched to the gt40p heads. the only downside to the P heads is that the spark plug is angled slightly different than regular gt40 or other heads but its not a huge deal. A set of gt40P heads gone through with a decent cam is a great budget street engine. oh yah stock e7te ford heads have a 1.74/1.46 valves where gt40p have 1.84/1.46 valves Just remember, if you upgrade the cam you need to make sure the valve train components are compatible. (mainly valve springs)
If you're out to save some money and still perform well, the GT40P heads are a nice way to go - they work well right out of the box. This post reminded me that I have a brand new set of GT40P heads in boxes. I was going to use them on a SCCA Mustang, but ended up spending some big bucks on Dart Pro1 heads and the whole top-end jazz. Anyway - if you want to go the GT40P route, I would part with them for a nice price - just PM me. You'll still need to put valves in them - but truth be told, that was what one should do anyway. I'd buy some bigger valves, rework the bowl area and have the seats redone for the larger valves. I prefer Manley Pro-Flow valves . . .
By the time you have a set of used, or incomplete set of GT40 heads redone with new valves, valve guides, etc you probably will have about as much, if not more money tied up in them, and they still won't be as good as the Edelbrock heads. With the Edelbrock 2221 cam (or bigger) a 2500-3000 rpm stall converter would be better.
A single ***ymbled edelbrock performer head with a 1.90 intake valve runs $620. so you are looking at $1240 for a pair plus the head bolt bushings to put them on a 5.0. I am having a hard time understanding how a set of boneyard heads(or ones of the net) can be more expensive than that. get a decent set, put a trickflow valve spring set in them for the camshaft, lap the valves. You can do a set of gt40s cheap. even with throwing new valve stem seals on them.
I've used the Ford Motorsport E-303 cam in a roller 302 w/ GT40P heads, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 600cfm carb, and a C4 auto. Wasn't real happy with the performance. In my old '62 Galaxie I dropped in a rebuilt roller cam 302 with stock E7TE heads (w/ Trickflow valve spring kit), Trickflow Stage I cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 600 carb, and T5 transmission. Could be the T5 trans, but this combination ran a TON better. From what I've been reading the last few years, the Trickflow grinds seem to be the way to go. <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ECd9_D6iqog?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Malcolm
I did alot of research before I built the stroker 331 in my model A. I came to the conclusion that for a hotted up SBF, for the street, if I wanted aftermarket Aluminum heads that AFR 165s were the ones to have. At the time the flow tests that Car Craft had been doing on various cylinder heads were still available(on their website, don't know if they still are), the 165s performed similar to the RPMs, and all the other heads in that bracket; but did so with less port volume, keeping the port velocity up, making it (theoretically, potentially) more octane tollerant. Here is some of the most relavent data I found. http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php Nothing wrong with the edelbrock heads, just prefer the AFRs.
If you want to use worn used valves, worn out valve guides, and just put in a new set of springs, and valve seals sure you will come out cheaper. If you want to do it right go out and price a good set of valves (no ebay specials), along with good, retainers, locks, having the heads cleaned, new valve guides, 3 angles on the seats, deck the head surface, along with the cost of labor it add$ up quick.
You might consider Edelbrock E-Street.... made to compete w/ Chinese knockoffs @ $940 complete w/ springs good for .550" lift. Presuming that your rollers are good, cam should be pretty cheap. Check with techs at Comp Cams, etc, etc to build a perspective
I am just saying that if you don't have the money for expensive heads or all the machine work you can get decent performance for cheap using boneyard parts. But you have to be cautious. Buying 250,**x mile heads probably isn't a good idea. If you can find a low mileage wrecked explorer, they are worth looking into. I do agree that if you have the money, getting a set of heads redone or buying aftermarket is a good choice but not everyone has the money for that.
I would recommend you visit this site http://sbftech.com/index.php before you go with the Edelbrock parts these are hard core Ford guys and the advice is top notch,the best aftermarket heads for a Ford small block are Trick/Flows and AFR's right out of the box.
I have the X-303 cam in my "B-58" '95 352 ci Windsow roller block... That and a set of Trick-Flow 5.0L "twisted wedge" heads drilled out to fit the 1/2" dia. ARP head studs... That motor screams...
What I think i'll do is just try and pull the entire drivetrain from an explorer, that'll give me the GT40P heads, the 4R70W ****** (which has the better gear set), and an 8.8 rear end. Then I can put a new intake and a cam in (I like the look of that Comp Cams one on the AFR dyno website, thanks for that link). then, when and if I get the need for more speed (and the need to spend more money) I can go ahead and go with the AFR's. But for now, since I'm on a budget (read: broke college kid), the -40P looks really good. Thank you all so much for your advice, but let's keep this discussion rolling, I'm really appreciatingthe insight I'm getting here. I really appreciate how you guys help out newbies like me with this sort of thing. I guess I've been exposed to Edelbrock marketing so much that I thought they were the only game in town.
If I may throw in my $.02. Consider using the 351 w cam. You will only have to change the fireing order to a 351. It is a little known power adder. I personaly would call comp cams tech line. They are very good, and will help you better then most back yard guys. (forget s***mit though) I have built many Fords, and know they like 106 center line, they also like compression, and of course they like to breath easy.
If I go with the E303, then wouldn't my firing order be changed anyway, because it's based on a 5.0 HO cam? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I'm a total noob, what do you mean by "106 center line?"
My Dad and I built a 302 and used the Comp 270-HR cam (for a 351w). F#$k, does it gets with the program!! It has a cool idle but not super drag race lopey. Its in a 55 Thunderbird (heavy car) and it has so much power that its starting take its toll on the rear springs. Its just a rebuilt 68 302 with stock heads with mild port work and a Ford factory tripower, along with a T-5 trans. I WILL NERVER USE ANY OTHER CAM IN A 302, PERIOD.
Mainly because it only makes 215 hp stock, and I'd like a LITTLE more get-up-and-go than that. Plus, as far as performance upgrades go, it seems to me like a cam offers the most bang for the buck, while still being relatively cheap.
Maybe I am incorrect but I believe that at least some of the 4R70W transmissions are electronically controlled. It will require a transmission control module to run the shift solenoids and so on. As for using the stock explorer cam, That cam is not ground for performance as much as emissions. It would do fine for driveabilty most likely but an aftermarket cam will make a huge difference in your power numbers. If you go with an explorer engine the firing order is already the same as an HO or 351. When it comes to cam choice dont get to into the "this is the best cam out there" thing. Different cams are designed for different applications and each will react differently to varying setups. There really is no perfect camshaft for everyone. Doing some reading it seems that most ford heads and exhaust seem to suffer a little on the exhaust side flow wise. Using a camshaft that is a split duration (different durations intake and exhaust) seem to help buy keeping the exhaust open a little longer. Ps ford racing cams are like duration, not split.
I'm considering sticking with EFI, if that's the case then the computer will have to stay anyways. That's the idea Do you know what the cutoff year/make/model is, as far as 302 vs. HO? Yeah I'm beginning to realize that. What I think I'm gonna do, is just call up Comp's tech line, and talk to them. They know their products and can probably give me the best recommendation. Thanks!
Yup. I only suggesting the stock cam because of the "budget" aspect. No doubt, a different cam would be better for the application. Personally, unless the heads are going to be replaced, I would use a stock mustang H.O. cam or the E cam. You might be able to find a stock mustang cam close to free. I put a used 5.0L cam in a used engine years ago... ran great.
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