First, I am NO painter. No experience. I recently picked up a good deal on a set of HVLP spray guns and a touch up gun and I am now wondering if I could/should strip and primer my '55 Chevy project part-by-part as I work on it and drive it that way for an extended period? Extended = maybe 2-3 years. Remember, this is sunny SoCal we're talking about here. I know using the complete paint system from one manufacturer is recommended. My truck is in rattle can Duplicolor self etching (yeah, I know) green primer. I did that just to get it all one color as I work on it. Not to worry, it had no "patina" - it was just ugly. Any advice for a true rookie painter is appreciated.
Regular sandable primer does not seal. If you leave it exposed to the elements you will have rust underneath. DP90 will last.
Thanks guys. Is DP90 and the DTM epoxy primer that Rancid referenced similiar/the same? If not, is one or the other easier to get decent results from by a rookie?
I had always used DP90 but my `29 will be finished in DTM2590 DuPont. The only difference I can see so far is it lays down a little better without much peel effect and looks very similar to e-coat( coating on new or aftermarket sheet metal from factory). Only time will tell. Bill
I have had PPG Epoxy primer on my 55 f100 for 2 years now and it seems to be holding up fine, it has turned a little bit more gray than the blueish gray it was when originally sprayed but it isn't chalky and still beads water.
I'll be perfectly honest the DP 90 will hold up fair but it will fade very quickly and look bad before you get finished,,I have used just about every primer out there,,,my user name says it all! The Kirker S G black and it will hold up great. HRP
So, since I'm in SoCal is the DTM2590 stuff legal here if DP90 isn't? And if it's NOT legal here is there an alternative? I don't really care if the color fades somewhat; it is a truck and a hotrod afterall.
We put DP90 on my brother's '54 Cadillac...ran it that way for over four years...in all kinds of weather and the worse thing it did was fade...sanded it with 150 when we were ready to do body work, primered it with another coat of DP90 and sprayed primer... I'd bet you could get some DP90 shipped in...just sayin'...!!! R-
I always used to spray one good coat of SEALER over the primer and/or bare metal if a job was going to sit for more than a month or so. Don't know what the AQMB laws are like in SoCal these days, but I do know that sealer will hold up better than most primers, (even epoxy) when exposed to UV and weather. Easy to take the next step, too, just scuff it and start painting or whatever. I am not up on what sealers are available these days, don't know anything about the Kirker paints mentioned, but thought the sealer was worth mentioning. Eric
You could also use MP900 Epoxy primer. It's is very similar product to DP90 just made by Matrix System.
SPI (Southern Polyurethanes) recently reformulated their Epoxy with UV inhibitors so it would stand up to the Sun-bet of all, it's very compe***ively priced ($80.85 a Gallon!)- http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
Thanks guys. Stupid question coming: What color are these various primers and are they tintable? I don't care THAT much but if its doable, I guess why not?
Actually the DTM2590 is considered a sealer. It can be topcoated within 24 hours. After that it needs to be scuffed. Dry time is 20 minutes. As far as colors it can be purchased in several shades like DP primers. I have always used VariPrime on bare metal so I`m still leery about the DTM poduct adhesion but the build is much better. DTM stands for direct to metal. Two coats and you`re done.
This compnay sells just about every type and color flat paint and primer available... http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ksflatz.aspx
hell get a SEALER... you can mix any color you want in to tint it... My roomie had blue sealer he made and it beaded water and looked like a flat blue paint job...
Ironic that you linked me to this site because tcpglobal are the guns I bought from an outlet place. I got THIS set for $58.99. I thought it might be a good deal so I bought it. Obviously, NOT a high quality set but for my ability (none...yet....!) it will likely be good enough. I know its almost certainly a Chniese set but I'm ok with it if I can use these to learn. Any/all opinions are welcome. http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/tcpgate.aspx Ok, so I'm clear, I want a sealer and preferably (or ONLY?) an epoxy paint? I need to sand/strip thoroughly; preferably to bare metal but it doesn't HAVE to be to bare?. What do you guys use to wipe down prior to applying paint? Anything else (Yeah, I know: A million things) but on a part-by-part basis done under as controlled conditions as I can manage in my garage.
Thanks. That's simple enough. Is it a h***le to clean the gun afterward? I ***ume there's a reasonable length of time to apply the paint before it "goes off" and to still clean the gun?
Well I'll be the A-hole here. Look at my link. I do high end resto for a living and I will NOT use epoxy primer on anything that matters. I have used it and I do NOT like it. If you break through on an epoxy you must stop and reapply it. I have taken broken edges and literally scratched the paint right off of the bare metal. when I confronted the factory rep about it, he told me I shouldn't break through it!! On the flip side, what I do use is an etching primer then a sealer on top of it. I have been running my 951 (porsche) around with nothing but this combo on it for 5 years with no issues. I have a CJ hood in nothing but etch primer for 8 years OUTSIDE and UNCOVERD with no issues. there are 2 spots where I scratched the etch primer and the rust has NOT spread beyond the scratch !! All I use is Spies and PPG and wil swear by both. with Etch primer if you break through, you can not scratch the edges loose. Simply finish that stage of work and apply your next coat of selaer, or etch if you have a huge bare spot
I don't think you're being an A-Hole at all. Hell, I'm a former 951 owner too, so could you be one? Ha ha. Look, I started this thread admitting I'm no painter. I don't know a damn thing about painting but a lot of you guys do and I'm asking for opinions. I've got a big compressor, some new HVLP guns and I can follow directions so I'm hoping there is a paint product that will do what I want, that I can spray relatively easily and safely in my own garage. If it doesn't come out good, I'll sand it off! So I've been sanding and rattle canning my '55 Chevy truck knowing that it really isn't protecting much but at least it's one color. I'm working on it piece-by-piece so I'm in no hurry. Can you please tell me WHICH Spies and PPG products you use and of course I need to find out if those products are legal in California. Last, if anyone else would please comment on these products I'd appreciate it.
Dan, as with most of the replies I endorse using epoxy primer. The reason I like it is that epoxy sticks extremely well to substrates and bare metal plus it is so durable that it acts like a sealer. I live near the Pacific Ocean and we get plenty of fog and salt air. Epoxy primer is the only thing I have seen that prevents metal from rusting for a reasonable amount of time..not forever, nothing lasts forever. You live in sunny SoCal so the sun and UV protection is your concen. As 35Window stated, I would whole heartily support buying form Southern Polyurethanes. Barry, the owner, really seems to stand behind his product and you can get it shipped to your home directly from SPI. To answer another of your questions, yes it comes in white so your local jobber can tint it...if they are willing to work with someone else's paint. My jobber used basecoat tint on a job I recently did. SPI is here http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ if you want to check them out. I have used their epoxy with a Dupont basecoat with SPI clear over that. The job turned out ***s and four years later after being parked outside with no protectant the paint still looks great! I recognize that for a newbie you want to stay with one brand for simplicity and compatibility but I wanted to throw out one hybrid combo that worked for me. Another question you had was about cleanability. Epoxy paint is SUPER sticky ****. That's one of it's advantages, it sticks to FREAKING EVERYTHING that it comes in contact with. So, you must be extra diligent about cleaning those mega dollar guns you bought. I personally like to clean guns with acetone and I dis***emble the air cap and fluid nozzle and use a brush with acetone to clean p***ages. Also, I would guess that you bought gravity feed guns so after cleaning the paint cup just gravity run clean solvent through the gun until it streams out clear and then hook back up the air pressure and alternatively spray it out and block the flow with a finger. When you are blocking it you will see bubbles in the fluid cup and that action seems to help me with cleaning out the really sticky paints from inside the gun. Careful about spraying solvent directly onto the skin of your finger or anything else. Nitrile gloves will be your friend. You will need to use the brush to clean out the fluid cup too. Lastly you asked about prep. You can buy specialty products just for the purpose of wiping down paint before spraying or other products for wiping down metal. Me, I'm too cheap for all that and I have used the proper stuff. Now I just wipe down with acetone especially on bare metal. It really cleans the pores of the metal. You won't believe how much dirt you will pull off and if you have the time and enough rags I would recommend cleaning until you stop pulling dirt/residue off. Warning, acetone is an aggressive solvent. I'm old and ****ed up and have exposed myself to so many nasty chemicals that one of them is likely to kill me eventually. I suggest you use gloves when wiping down your truck and absolutely, positively, get a respirator that uses activated charcoal filters in it before spraying. The activators in modern paints contain isocyanates in them and that **** is just what it looks like, cyanide. 3M sells a disposable respirator that has eight hours of useability in the filters. I hope all this helps, my fingers are tired now.
I sprayed PPG's DP74LF (lead free read oxide) epoxy primer onto my 55.2 Chevy truck 3 years ago, and it looks as good today as it did when I sprayed it. I chemically stripped the entire truck down to bare metal, then before spraying each panel (separately), I wiped it off good with Kustom Shop's wax and grease remover (sourced from TCP global). Anywho, it's been in primer and will stay in this primer for as long as I own it. I didn't sand the primer, it's as-shot out of my gun. I live in the northeast, so my area doesn't get the solar exposure as much as you do out on the left coast. So UV issues could be a concern, if you don't like chalking.
I'll throw one more into the mix. anout eight years ago I sprayed the upper body of my avatar '48 Plymouth with Valspar DTM2000 epoxy primer/sealer. It can be mixed and applied either way, but damn it's done a good job of staying relatively black and protecting the metal. And my car sits out everyday in AZ's sun and winter cold.
Thanks you guys. What you wrote is EXACTLY the kind of information I'm looking for - an ordinary; but experienced hotrooder's point of view. I'm sure Scottb356 is giving me HIS experience and it is valuable. At some point I'm gonna have to pick and right now I'm leaning toward Triggerman's approach. I'll start out by testing on one individual part just to see if I can set up my gun and spray it decent looking and then clean it without messing it up. Thanks again guys, you're the best!
Dan the PPG etch primer is DPX171 then I upt a couple coats of K36 on top of that as a sealer. As I said, my experiences with epoxy was no where near what they have been with etch and sealing. Yes Epxoy STICKS to everything and sticks well, but that is it's problem. It STICKS to the metal where as the etching primers actually etch into the metal creating a much better bond. In the defense of Epoxy, I have put it on panels and left it alone outside to see what it does and it doesn't break down and allow water thrugh. It is just the fact that if you break through when sanding it, you have to touch up every little spot, and it doesn't feather out, it leaves a broken edge. Maybe sometime when I have spare time, I'll do a tech with some really detailed pics comparing the two methods
To get SPI's epoxy primer to flow nicely (and it is already nice and thin when you add the activator) I sometimes reduce it a tad with their urethane reducer. That makes it flow like ****ah but be careful about the flow indicators, aka runs. I sincerely hope you have some fun doing this because painting can be incredibly frustrating sometimes especially when your gun starts acting up for no apparent reason. Feel free to PM me if you use my suggestions and things don't seem to work out.
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