I know this is a common problem with rockets. I recently rebuilt two early Olds and they both oil the rocker shafts, barely. I mean the oil just slightly drips from the rockers, hardly enough for much to drain back. Everything is clean and pretty sure all the holes are lined up or I wouldn't get any oil at all, would I? I'm not sure how anybody could answer how much oil is enough, but compared to a SBC, it looks like there isn't 10% as much. I'm thinking about maybe putting an external line from oil pressure gauge fitting at the filter base up to the shafts. If anybody here has done that, could you let me know how you connected at the shaft and how you got into the valve covers?
If you knock out the end of the shaft little freeze plug napa has them.Clean out the inside,all holes on shaft,every little hole on rocker arm, if every thing is clean this should help.Unlike the sbc these are soild push rods.
Yeah, already cleaned out the shafts. Just seems like a scarily small amount of oil up there. I think I've talked myself into the external oil line deal. I'd like to hear from somebody who's done it.
The Guru of Olds motors is here on the HAMB.... PM HAMBER : GOATROPER02 , AKA 'Tony', I'm sure he will point you in the proper direction....
I was just thinking that yesterday on my 303. Maybe someone will chime in. I was going to look to see if I could come though the head somehow, with a p***age that was tapped on both sides for NPT, and then hard lines.
Well I know I have a completely different motor, however; on my 302 GMC (Jimmy), I installed 4 bolt mains which resulted in plugging the oil gallery to the head (oil gallery was required for the 2nd splayed bolt in the main cap). I ran an external hard line, up to the head, to oil the roller rockers, etc.... However; I had to limit he supply of oil to the rockers as I would have filled the valve cover with oil, with using just 1/8" pipe. I soldered one of the fittings closed, then drilled a hole threw the solder. If I remember correctly, it may have been around a 1/16" drill. I determined this by using an electric drill to spin the oil pump at 2,600 RPM, which is 5,200 motor RPM....
I have and idea this may work.<TABLE cl***=overvw><TBODY><TR><TD cl***=overvw-labels>Summit Racing Part Number</TD><TD cl***=overvw-midmargin></TD><TD cl***=overvw-data>SUM-220682N</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> This bulk head fitting if you drilled in valve cover between the holders of shaft in spring area small tubing,then weld nut to cover inside,cut off tubeing to fit in fitting then screw other end with washer and then find oil hole to feed.As candyman say you don,t want to much oil.The lifters some timings make the most noise.You can see a rocker with no oil and wear.
First ..in stock trim they dont oil like a sbc......and i ***ume you know its timed oiling up to the rocker stands? When Im building these engines I do a few mods internally......Yours is already together so its to late for that, Now Let me ask.... Which lifters are you using? Tony
Thanks for trying to get a good thread going on what is wrong with the stock system. I saw the timed holes at a little less than 120 degrees apart. I just went through what I have here this morning and have 2 questions; I don't have a cam bearing here, or empty block, and I can't tell from the wear marks on an old cam, if the #2 and #4 cam bearings have an oil groove? It looks like it might not, because I don't see a dark oil stain on the cam journal center? So, if they don't have a groove, would a groove solve low flow? I would not be afraid to chuck my cam in a lathe to groove it. I can't see that it would hurt the cam, but would it steal pressure from a more critical area?
Tony- One engine ( '51 303 w/#3 heads) has NOS Olds lifters, other ('55 324 w/#8 heads) has ??? new lifters from Tyrells. Both sets of lifters pumped up right away with drill motor on the pump, and have been quiet since, so I guess there's no oiling problem there. The cam journals or bearings are not grooved. Is grooving the cam one of the mods you mentioned? I'd groove the journals if that would work, but its a long way back, now. I'd much rather figure out an oiler set-up than pull the engines apart. BTW, I cleaned out the shafts and the supply stand hole with gun brushes and pipe cleaners. There was lots of sludge in them.
I looked at some rockers here, to see where the oil goes "if" you were to get oil up to the shafts I snuck a rocker off of the 1953 303, and it only has one drill hole, and it feeds the tip of the pushrod. How it gets oil to the top of the valve stem, is not obvious. Then I looked at a 56 324 rocker. It has the oil feed hole to the pushrod top, but has two more holes. One hole dumps oil pretty close to the valve stem, and the other hole comes through the OD wall of the rocker, and is aimed at the valve or valve spring area. Then I looked at a 1.5 adjustable McGurk. Very different way of doing things; it has a hollow adjusting screw with an oil groove halfway down the threads on the adjuster screw. The rocker is cross drilled to feed the screw, but is not cross drilled anywhere else like the stock 56 rocker. So, it sure looks like the hole in the screw gets filled with oil and higher rpms will toss the oil over the rocker shaft, to hit the valve top. I like it much better than the stock 53 303 rocker. Looking at an oil flow diagram, the galley up to the cam that eventually feeds the rockers, comes right from the main oil feed to the mains. So, would cutting a oil groove in the #2 and #4 cam journals, rob too much pressure from the mains? And if maybe it will, then could you use a restrictor in the rocker stand that fits over the feed hole from the cam?
I am betting that Tony is backfeeding the shafts through hollow pushrods, and Chevy type lifters. But what about the differences in rockers and some with less oil feeds?
F&J- Interesting about the differences in rockers. On the 324 the rockers oil the pushrod ends but don't seem to oil the valve tips at all , unless it's just from seepage around the shafts somehow. That doesn't seem right. On the 303 rockers there's a hole in the tip above the valve stem that really isn't aimed at anything. I guess with such low stock oil supply, the oil just drips down to the valve? Makes me wonder if I increased the supply to the shaft, those holes might just squirt off into nowhere and lube less.
There must be a bunch of changes in different years on 303 and 324 rockers. My 53 303 does not appear to have a valve tip oiler hole, unless I missed it. My 56 324 has 3 holes, one to the pushrod, the other two are underneath, and one does get real close to the valve stem tip, and the other one is aimed at the valve spring, sort of. I have not looked at my 55 324.
Actually I have no idea which rockers are for which years, since both engines were built from piles of parts. Out of about 8 different shafts and stands I cant see any differences in those parts only in the rockers themselves. Interestingly, only one shaft out of the pile shows much wear and only a couple of rockers are wobbly. Maybe good metallurgy makes up for lousy oil supply?? I'd still like to get more oil up there, though.
If I were to pressurise the shafts with a hard line from the oil filter base fitting, I could use 1/8th in. copper lines with a flathead Ford oil filter restrictor fitting to cut down chance of too much volume. Seems pretty simple so far, but if the line is hard-connected into the end of the shaft or the rocker stand, how do you get through the valve cover? I guess double gaskets with a slot through to top one might work. If I did all this I'd sure want to run the engine wth the covers off to see what's happening.
I know it is a little tacky, however; why not threw the top of the valve cover, directly into the rocker stand ?
I had a 49 303 and had heads off and pulled lifters out and clean the littles hole,and clean every hole in rocker arm.One hole is drilled toward shaft at end and one to top.Its been 15 years from what i can remember.Lapped all valves in wanted it to start after a 33 year nap.I put about 12000 miles and every so often a lifter would be noisy used a lifter oil fix, but Marvels oil may help. I also have hear some rocker arms have more lift,so they are not all the same small difference.I would NOT take any oil presure away from the lifters.
Do NOT groove the cam.....I find its to hard on the bearings I modifiy the block and the bearing on my builds..... Also ... back feeding when lifters will allow......NO MORE than 4 (1 in each corner of the motor) tubular pushrods or you will flood the rocker boxes and bad things happen Dont worry about rockers with and without valve tip oilers.....meaningless Adjustable rockers....make sure pushrods are correct length so that adjustor is in its opperating range and able to oil the pushrod end Tony
"Do NOT groove the cam.....I find its to hard on the bearings I modifiy the block and the bearing on my builds...." Tony, Would it be giving up a trade secret to tell how you modify the block and bearings? Thanks for he expert advice.
Off topic,but...the GMC rockers are fed by an external pipe from the front of the main oil galley. If you blocked the galley with extra main bolts you would have to redirect oil to the mains somehow also?. You got photos of this stuff,in a different thread to be considerate of this topic. The original GMC rocker oil restriction fitting in the head is .062 if this helps for the Olds.
Very interesting thread if you own an early Olds....and have run one with the valve covers off... you can wear a white dress shirt without fear.. I will look at the 55 rockers maybe, to compare.
Sorry : This is way off topic : I did not explain myself correctly since this was more of an Olds thread. I used a hard line from the oil pump, threw the pan, to the oil filter, then back into the block by taping into the oil gallery on the side of the block. This was due to the 4 bolt mains. The roller rockers & stands do not have a feed on the front stand, therefore; I picked up an external oil line which feeds into the top of the front rocker stand... Didn't mean to confuse anyone, as I didn't want to get into a long Jimmy story on a Olds thread.....
Maybe making a shallow groove on the OD of the cam bearing, and a groove in the bore to match? ...grabbin' at straws here ...
Interesting thread since ill b re-doin my 51 303 soon. That lack oof oiling could have been scary if i didnt know.
These old engine run fine , the use of NON degerent oil killed alot of engine.I don,t know what this timing thing is but its not at the cam bearing.If you are talking about timing its at the rocker arm shaft,when the hole lines up it goes to the tip of rocker. If the hole is clean from the cam bearing to support there should be enought oil.If using and old engine at least clean the screan and pan of all the muck.
The number 2 and 4 cam journals, each have 2 intersecting holes, maybe 110 degrees apart. When these two holes line up with the oil hole from the crank, and also the oil hole that goes up to the head, then the oil can flow. The cam journal holes act like a valve body; allowing oil for a split micro second, then staying closed for most of the one revolution of the cam. One journal feeds one head, the other feeds the opposite head. So, it's not constant pressure through the head feed hole (and the rocker stand feed.) It pulses.
The Jalopy Journal
