Nov. 2011 Banger thread. Really...November?

Bill, I concede, I only have 45 years around a machine shop so you have me there. But I would never advise him to hold a part that small while machining a radius on a mill. I have done it many times on a surface grinder and wouldn't advise anyone do that either. No offense to you, we've all done unsafe things.

 

I guess I sorta take offense. I don't feel it is unsafe when I did it or I wouldn't have done it. Next time I will take a photo so that you can see how far away from the end mill my fingers are.

 

I was 13 or 14 the 1st time my dad showed me how to do that little trick.
We had a fixture that had a stop on the start side and the end side so I didn't F-up any of the parts.
Something you wont learn at school but in the real world you do what you have to.
Now I live in the CNC world so my fingers are very safe. I can mill the part and check out the HAMB at the same time on my cell phone. How times have changed. 25 years from now I will only have to think of the part and it will be made. (time will tell)

 

Here are some pictures of the stock Winfield linkage.

 

btt just wanted to find this thread again

 

Maybe 1/3 of the Winfield carburetors I have or have owned in the past have had this type of linkage which is the best, in my opinion. The rest have had the cast bronze arm and swivel type with most of the wires stamped with the size.
I have used and still use the die cast Al or pot metal type on dual linkage but have found when double springing as required in some competition venues they can and do slip. So I pin them. I will have to admit those pictured look to be of an improved design.
I enquired as to the cost of having some bronze arms cast I was quoted the price of $7 per unit in 1M minimum quantities.

 

Put me down for 6 sets
Bill your set up looks real nice and clean I will be saving the pics just in case I find another Winfield carb.
Thanks Bill

 

Sorry guys- been away from the computer for a couple days!

Crazy- thanks for the pic of your linkage. Mone look more like what Bill has made.

Doug and Bill- I learned a long time ago NOT to take chances when using power tools. My dad brought home a Lionel 2333 Santa Fe diesel that someone that was in nice shape, except that the battery for the horn had gone bad and ruined the bracket that held the horn in place...

Dad was in the process of making a new bracket and simply needed to drill a hole in the bracket, but was in a hurry and didn't clamp the piece. Long story short, the bracket spun when he started the drill and promptly wrapped itself up his finger. He had to peel it of before running to the hospital- to this day, he has a candycane scar that runs up his finger... an no feeling.

Bluto, are you in the states? Hope you're doing well- will send you an email this week!

 

just a thought here do they have to be bronze or would cast aluminum work
I can probably make them if I have one for a pattern, and they can be heat treated too

 

winfield 'monkey' linkage is wierd stuff . i was forunate to buy one with everything there .
good luck on making it ............... steve

 

Winfields seem to be the carburetor of choice for early Banger builds; Strombergs for later style. What’s the Number Three choice amongst the bangeren? A buddy and I are going to try some backyard metal casting this winter, and I’d like to try building a 2x1 intake for my ‘28 Chevy. But, I'm wondering what carbs I should plan for.

-Dave

 

I have run a pair of SU's from an early-'58--'61-Volvo-- on a '27 block Chevy banger.

Important thing is not to try to use too much carb on a street motor.


Herb

 

I just made some SU flanges for a guy here on the HAMB

 

Are those side-draft carbs? I actually was planning on casting a down-draft manifold.

My original plan had been to run a single Carter BB-1 updraft, like from a ‘40s GM COE truck, but when trying to think of things to cast up, I kept coming back to a 2x1 down-draft intake. Maybe I should scrap that idea and look at casting a valve cover instead.

-Dave

 

Anyone know what's the engine displacement (cui or cc) of a European 1932 Model BF engine is ?
It's hard to see, but the block is stamped BF 5272616

 

Down here in New Zealand I use early HQ Holden carbs they are strombergs and look similar to early v8 carbs and cheap however I think that english SU carbs may give a better choice of size and may be more tuneable. I will be useing winfields on my rutherford.

 

Dave ... are you talking early Chev valve cover?

Ron

 

Yes. Sort of like the valve covers on Ed Iskenderian's car.

-Dave

 

I've been thinking abovt a cover for my '28 Chevy head and a side cover for that head on an A block.

Ron

 

This apears to be the same as a B or BB block. If so it will be 200 ci.
Here is a link to more info:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

It now looks like the BF designation is for the smaller 14 hp block that had a 3.055 bore and 124.6 ci.
More info:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/1933modelb24and14.9ib.htm

.

.

 

For tax reasons in England and France (as far as i know) they had fewer
cubic inches, only i don't know how much.
Your right that the block itself looks identical.
Also have a Model AF engine from France and that should also be less CUI

 

I edited my oroginal post. The BF should be the small bore 124.6 ci.

.

 

The BF also had more cam timing & lift. "B" timing:
Intake timing: 30/78 Intake: 8/56
Exhaust: 74/26 Exhaust: 56/8
Lift: .338 lift: .334
Don't know what part of the lobe lift these measurements were taken from.
It would be interesting to know what the volume of the cyl head is, if it's smaller than a "B" it would make a nice stock engine along with the BF cam installed in regular "B" block with 3.875 bore.

 

Thanks guys, that's the info i was looking for.
Any idea how much HP came out, because the 14 HP figure was the tax rating in the UK if i'm correct ?

 

I was thinking that BF was for Big F#cker

 

Hey guys, I've been pulling the banger apart after running it a little in the summer after getting it, when it's not running and turning the crank by hand I hear a click from the crank. Dropped the pan last night to find when cylinder 2/3 are at BDC, lifting up on the rod I can move the rod and piston on the crank being there is too much play. What can I do to correct this? I'm not looking to do a full rebuild or sink alot of $$$ into it. Just wanted to do an over all check with new gaskets, paint and single down draft carb. BTW engine is bored 0.80 over.

 

Sounds like you need new rods. As you take it apart you will most likely find more stuff out of spec.

 

At risk of having a bunch of folks come down on me as a butcher, or infidel, let me tell you what we did when confronted with problem back in the bad old days, and used parts were all that we could afford.

Take the cap off the rod, and pull an appropriate number of shims to get the clearance back to closer to what it should be with the crank at a ninety degree to the bore location--because the rod journal will be out of round also, and this will be the spot with the least clearance. When you get to the point that you can just tap the rod fore and aft with a very small hammer, you are at the a"best you can do". If there are no shims left to take out, file the surface of the cap that tightens against the rod, keeping it as flat as possible. If the babbitt is starting to break up, take a hot soldering iron and melt the broken edges back together. Might have to dress up the spots that you melt together if they are above the average bearing surface after you do this.

Never loose sight of the fact that you are working with an eighty year old piece that was built with 100 year ago technologies---and that some time in its life some things like this (or worse) were inflicted on it.

Again--I am offering these suggestions as stopgap fixes---if you are trying to get the rest of the season out of the engine before a Winter rebuild--hopefully done properly. We did them to make the engine last, until we could find another "just rebuilt" engine for $10-$25. Every A and B engine that I ever bought was "just rebuilt" even the ones with parts missing inside. Best one was when my buddy scraped up enough dough to get a factory rebuilt Ford B engine through the local Ford dealer, When it came back we had to remove the pan to modify it to use in an A--BUT there was a tag that said that removing the pan meant that the guarantee (what ever that was) would be voided if the pan or head was removed. Off came the pan, and inside was about a half cup of oil dry clay granules.
We sent a letter asking how this was to be removed without pan removal.

Still waiting to hear back from them

Oh and BTW-- your block may be .080 over, but at .80 you have one long funny lookin cylinder, with lots of water inside

Herb Kephart

 

I can't disagree. Still, hopped up banger stuff is rare enough around here, I'm not too worried about standing out.

Were Chevy manifolds commercially available at one point? Seems Rufi, Spurgin, and Giovanine used motorcycle carbs right on the head IIRC.

-Dave