Is this shock mount right?Model A

Am about to tear down this model A I purchased about 5 months ago and make it mine.There is a bunch of questionable stuff on the ch***is but I was wondering what you guys thought on the position of the front shock.My thinking is that it has not enough stroke length out for it to actually be working.I get some vibration issues at speed and am thinking that a panhard bar is going to help,but could this also be part of the problem.Another question is I have a couple of marks on the tube axle where the spring u bolt nuts have hit the tube at some stage,would it be prudent to add a leaf or re arch.Thanks

 

The front axle looks narrow. Might be why the shocks are mounted that way. Nothing should ever hit or bind in any suspension through any combination of movements. A panhard bar won't do a thing to solve a vibration.

 

The front is 42" on king pin center,have no idea where the kit was purchased.I am thinking of just making some higher mounts as there is a half inch of shaft showing at ride height.

 

Looks good, but also looks like you got a 1/2" before it bottoms out!!

 

Most dropped axles are in the 48-49 inch kingpin center to center. That 3 inches plus per side is why the shock mounts are crammed in there. You can raise it sure. But that won't cure your vibration, or your suspension travel interference or your shock mounts. If it were me, I'd get a better axle to start with, and mock-up from there.

 

You certainly need to get shorter shocks or re-engineer the shock mounts to get some travel. Shocks should never bottom out. Something needs to bottom on the frame before shocks bottom out or you will have shock mounts breaking/ shock failures.

A panhard bar won't help your vibration,it just guides the travel of the suspension through an arc to reduce bump steer.

Before you do anything with the shock mounts,check your caster.Should be 5-7 degrees.

I would also recommend changing to an I-beam axle (looks like hairpins on the car?).That will give you a better ride and free up the bind you currently have that is caused by caster change trying to twist the axle. Tube axles will not twist, an I-beam will,and the axle does need to twist on a car with hairpins, no matter how many people tell you they have tube with hairpins that "works just fine". It just doesn't.

 

I didn't know they even made axles with that short of a kingpin to kingpin dimension. I've seen them as narrow as 46 to tuck the tires under fenders, and the norm is 48 to 50 inches. What is the spring perch to spring perch dimension? This normally is about 34-36 inches. It almost looks like someone removed a few inches out of the middle of your axle and welded it back together.

I think if you put a wider axle in there (with the proper width perch to perch dimensions.....if it isn't 34-36 now) the bottom of your shocks will move out and lay at a better angle. That axle has me puzzled.

BTW, is the drivers side shock ****ed on an angle or is that an optical illusion?


Don

I looked over your pictures again. I bet if you measure that spring it is 26 inches wide on center to center........that is commonly used on T buckets, not a spring over axle setup like yours. It is also pretty flat. The correct spring should be about 31 wide. It will also help ride and handling a lot.

 

You sure about that 42" dimension? Typo? As stated above,never heard of such a thing. The "narrow" axles for low cars with fenders are 46".

I noticed the shocks look like they are at different angles too,Don....not sure what that's all about.

Edit: looks like the lower driver side shock mount is twisted on the perch,which is why it appears to stand up straighter.

 

I think that is what has happened MM, the Pete and Jakes type lower mount has loosened up and swung inward. I have to keep tightening mine up too, about every year or so they get slightly loose and move a tad.

I bet he is right about the 42 inch measurement, that axle looks like it was made for an Anglia or something, very narrow.

Here is a similar setup on my 27 with a regular width 34 axle. Look how much further my tires are out than the ones in your pictures.



Don

 

Really appreciate the responses,I am more of the IFS rodder so have a lot to learn on this type of build.
To answer a couple of question Don,the spring perch boss c/l is 31",and yes I figure the spring is 26" between centers as it is 27+ at ride height.The axle doesn't appear to have had any mods done to it(shortening)Optical illusion on the shock.Thanks Roger

 

You are right on the shock mounts are slightly twisted.I tightened the once already but now it will be of the road till I get this sorted.

 

Ok, for whatever reason, your car has a really narrow axle and spring setup. I don't know where they even got that one, but someone must make it for some reason.

I went over to my shop tonight for a few minutes and while there I measured both of my cars with straight axles. The kingpin to kingpin centerline is 50 inches on both and the spring perches are 36 inches on both. So you are missing a whopping 8 inches of tread and 5 inches of perch width.

What you can do is simply buy a standard width axle (it looks in the picture like your spindles are early Ford pattern, but hard to tell. Make sure what they are before you order an axle. There are early Ford, Ford Econonline, and 49-54 Chevy specific axles out there so you will need to know what you have. Then you will need a 31 inch spring, like a Superbell, and a longer tie rod (Speedway has them in stock or will custom make them very reasonably).

Finally, throw a SoCal stabilizer either in painted finish or chrome $ 40 vs $80, some longer rubber brake hoses, and you will be in much better shape.

Good luck.

Don

 

Thanks I think you are right and it is a T Bucket front end even though I have not been able to find a dealer with that narrow a setup.Have already been looking in various catalogs for an axle and spring setup any preferences?Are the kingpin diameters pretty much standard.Thanks Roger

 

that spring looks like a mono leaf too, toss it and use a stack spring that will cure that bottoming out ****'

 

You are right about that.
Take off all those catalog bought "street rod" parts and make it look more traditional.

.02

 

Whats it going to take to be more traditional,I know that is going to be a very interesting topic with all the different opinions.I bought this because the body is in such exceptional shape and had not been molested.I do not intend to chop it,but am open to all suggestions ch***is and engine wise.My main priority is that it will be driven a lot and want it reliable and safe.

 

there is no need to change the axle. make new upper shock mounts and put a steering stabilizer on if it still has some shake after checking all the front end parts for wear.

angling the shocks over decreases there effectiveness

you can not arch the spring more due to the length it is now. you would need a spring that is about 1 inch longer.


hair pins are fine on a tube axle due to the amount of flex in them verse a split wishbone.

 

there is no need to change the axle. make new upper shock mounts and put a steering stabilizer on if it still has some shake after checking all the front end parts for wear.

angling the shocks over decreases there effectiveness

you can not arch the spring more due to the length it is now. you would need a spring that is about 1 inch longer.


hair pins are fine on a tube axle due to the amount of flex in them verse a split wishbone.

 

As you can see by the responses, there are no clear cut answers..........everyone has their own theories. Personally, I have no problem using dropped aftermarket axles, although both of my cars have original ones, one is dropped one is not. But my last car had a Superbell and it was fine. I have also used Posies Superslide springs on pretty much every car, mainly for the nice ride they give with the teflon ****ons.

As far as the shock angle, there are several schools of thought. Some say you lose efficiency if you lay them over, but I do put a little more angle to them because I like them to act as sidesway eliminators as well as shocks. As you can see in the picture of my 27 the shocks are laid over somewhat and I wanted them that way, the car corners like it is on rails and has no shackle swing because of the shocks keeping the axle from shifting sideways.

Hot rod building theories can be debated all day long, but in the final ****yzis, whatever works well for your particular car is the right way to do it. There are as many ways of building a hot rod as there are hot rods.

Don

 

Hairpins are not fine on a tube axle. I-beam axles are I-beam axles for a reason. They are designed to twist by Ford engineers and metallurgists. Hairpins are round mild steel tubing, not something I want to be twisting and bending constantly locating the front axle in my car.

Not to say it doesn't work, it just doesn't work correctly.

No sense in building something that is in a constant state of trying to break itself, when you can just as easily do it right.

 

With all the talk of the axle being so narrow, I'm just curious what the front TREAD (width from center of tire to center of tire on opposite side) is and how it compares to what you have for tread on the REAR?? Seems like this should be a prime consideration as far as handling goes?

 

What's the turn radius like with that narrow axle? Seems like the tire might rub the radius rod before you can turn very tight.

 

I had the same thoughts about the rear vs front tread width. With them being so different it can't help.

I wondered about that too, but maybe the fact that his perches are moved in also gives him some extra room there.

The car looks great in the pictures, so it is well worth doing right. You will be much happier with the proper width stuff up front, believe me.

Don

 

Thanks guys for all your input,am definitely taking everything into consideration and figuring out what I will do.Turning is no issue and it does not rub in it's present state but there is a substantial difference between the front and rear tire centers.Am still heading in the direction of changing to a dropped I beam and switching the spring.

 

Am pricing a couple of I beams and springs,was wondering if there is a quick way of knowing what spindles I have on the existing tube axle,or do I need to pull apart and measure.Wheels are 5 1/2" so that is leading me to believe early Ford is that a good ***umption.Or is it safer to measure.Thanks Roger

 

those shocks look alittle long, like they would bottom out.

 

Take some pics of the front and backs of the spindle & arms, and one showing the bolt pattern that was for the backing plate. Somebody here will ID them.

 

Thanks,this is all I got at the moment.

 

At one time you could order the SB axle any length you wanted for a fee.

Ron