Weld in crossmember or bolt in?

Im going to be installing a mustang II suspension on a 48 chevy and was planning on just welding in the crossmember but the more i thought about it the welder i have in my garage is 110A Mac mig welder and im having second thoughts on if the weld will be strong enough to support the front half of my car so i started thinking about installing a bolt in. Im stuck and am not sure what i should do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

well here a couple of options..............

do all the alignment and tack it in place and take it to a welding shop and have it done by them.

that way you will feel confident about the welds.

in the future take a welding cl*** and get up to speed on the trade and then you can do your own welding the future.

 

top hat frame on that chevy? (like the '49-54s?) then bolt it in. I've 'heard' of stories where the frames crack at the welds. Never seen, just heard of it. CE makes good stuff.

 

My line of thinking tells me that if I was going to put in a bolt-in crossmember, I'd seal the deal with welding it in. With having said that, GM was installing bolt-in front suspensions in cars and trucks for many years. So who is right or wrong? Correct placement, fitment, alighment of front end will dictate so much.
Welders are portable. Shop wiring can be adjustable if 50 amp 220 volt single phase isn't present. Friends with portable welders and needing skills of yours? Options?

 

Bolt it in, weld it in, and then weld the bolts/nuts on?

 

Buy a quality 220-volt MIG welder and do it right. The welder will come in handy on numerous projects.

 

We have wrestled with the same decision relative to the 46 Ford my Son Don is going to build. Pretty much we have decided to go with a weld in. We just kind of feel there is less to work loose and we understand welding enough to make it as good as we can.

Probably pros and cons to each, but that is the way he has decided to go.

Don

 

Bring it over here, ill weld it up for you. Bottle of 1800 black lable and material

 

Redrill two holes after placement is done. Use a countersinking bit to make way for two countersunk allen bolts. Countersunk allen bolts are in the Grade 10 neighborhood in hardness.
If a slick fitment is desired, take above and clean all the other bolt holes to get to shiny metal. Weld all contact line with taking observations of what would be a stress or water collection situation. Pull bolts out in order like torquing a cylinder head, weld in the two countersunks, start grinding.
I may be wrong, but I've done this on my A and helped on a couple of other vehicles.

 

I say weld it,bolts strech and get loose, get with 31 vicky, let me know when you guys are getting together so i can join you and meet some members of this fine society, i will be the guy with the pepsi, me and 1800 dont get along anymore, but we used to be the best of friends.LOL

 

Thanks all. I like the bolt in weld in idea

 

Iv'e posted on this subject before here on the HAMB. BOLT IT IN! I've done two M2 installs in Chevys,a '36 and a '52. Both cracked around the welds in time. Perty dangerous! There are some great bolt in kits available for Chev (and Studebaker) top hat frames. Normal Norman

 

Not required. A good weld in kit will be cleaner and stronger once it's properly installed.

That's the way to go. Find a friend good at welding and go at it.
You will be much happier with the results.

 

Come on over fellas

 

Blue one, would you trust a 110 welder to support a front end? Ive been welding for several years but mainly with 220 welders, and my cars on stands in my garage with no 220. Thats my situation. Im going to do it one way or the other

 

Where abouts you at in Cleveland 31 vicky

 

Where do you get this bad information from? Any bolt, including Allen bolts come in hundreds of grades, from ungraded to aerospace stuff. There is no such thing as random allen bolts in the "grade 10 neighborhood" designation.

And to the OP, a weld in kit is designed to be welded in, and a bolt in kit is designed to be bolted in. And don't weld the bolts after you install them. The bolt will loose it's heat treat when you weld it. Choose a kit, and follow the manufactures instructions. They've done more engineering than you, me and the other "experts".

 

Not to start a fire or a slugfest, the three bolt supply houses I deal with have the same answer when the ask me if I know what grade they are. I used that as a generalization. I hope it is plain enough in the subject to know we are talking about steel. It's on me to ***ume there is more than one grade of hardened steel countersunk head bolt because hex "capscrews" can be purchased in may grade levels and levels of imitations to think you have spent good money on chicken squirt bolts.
Wording, fine. Let's get back to work with working on our cars or maybe trying to help others. I'm cool with all of it.

 

Absolutely not. If you can't get access to a quality 220 volt welder, take the car to someone who can do it for you.

Don

 

I have a 110 volt Miller 135 and I would use it and trust it, however I am a Journeyman welder and have welded for many years. (Made my living at it and teach now)

Used properly I am always amazed at how well the little Miller welds.

I use .023 ER70-S6 wire and 75%Argon and 25% CO2 mix.

Metal ground shiny clean for all joints and the machine dialed up hot along with proper welding technique will do it.

On the other hand if you can get a 220 volt welder you could always run it with an extension cord off of your dryer outlet (If you have an electric clothes dryer)

The 110 welder will do it, but you have to be on top of your game.

 

There's no, and there's hell no, and then there's OOHH HELL NO
Your situation pertaining to 110 MIG for a crossmember would be the latter of those.
You should be able to rent a generator welder and have at it if you can weld.

 

i used a CE bolt in cross member. and with lock-***e and about 8 bolts per side, i don't think it's going anywhere....

 

I have years of running down these rough Mo. roads with my 48 chevy and the CE is bolted in with never a bolt coming loose yet and that's without lock***e or welding the bolts. GM designed the car with a bolt in front end and the car made it to 2011 with no problems except they make better shocks now. I was having a hitch made one time for my truck and I wanted it bolted in, the welder insisted it would be stronger if welded. I told him, you see that airplane flying by at 40,000 feet, they bolt the engine in, they don't weld them in. He bolted it in and its still there. I don't care for the weld in front because they come out with the car pretty low and you can't raise it. My CE is adjusted all the way to get the front up as high as I can and I would still like it an inch higher. The reason is that the tires rub the edge of the fender on some turns. I hope this helps you. Good luck

 

another thought I remembered, you can do the whole bolt in front end without taking the fenders or the hood off the car. These chevy's are a sweet car to do, I even modified the trans cross member to use with the 700R4 trans though it would have saved time to buy a crossmember. The only thing I don't like is that I used a ford half ton rear which is the width of the original rear but to wide to align the wheels with the front wheels. So I had to get front wheels with little back spacing. Looks good, but would be better if I could have gotten longer than the long A arms that usually come with these kits. If you decide to weld in a front end, I have a 48 chevy crossmember for $200. Good luck

 

There is a reason there are no welds on that Chevy frame. Everything is bolted or riveted. It is made to flex. If you want to be sure nothing will crack, BOLT it in.

 

GM made those frames with bolt-in front ends from the '30s through '54 and I've never heard of one falling off. I would do the bolt-in and not worry about it.

 

So, at this point it is about 50/50. The origional x-member bolts in. Properly torque the bolts and use loc-***e and they won't come loose. The "don't weld on a top hat frame" thing seems to be one of those internet car myths that on one can seem to verify. I have seen people clipping and notching top hat frames on this and other sights, but have not seen reports of frames cracking, or breaking. I do kind of find it hard to understand how the frame would be flexing at the point of attachment to the front cross member whether welded, or bolted in. I would think the cracking may be more attributable to embrittlement of the metal from welding, but I am certi****ly no welding expert by any means. Maybe someone who is can chime in on this subject, and help solve the mystery. The bottom line for me is that bolting it in is easier, and if your welding skills are not up to snuff, a much better choice.

 

You are so worried about the 'can i - should i' that you are missing the obvious. Is the crossmember a 'structural piece', in other words since you are adding an m2 front and whatever else has been done to the stock frame over the decades the real question is whether or not the crossmember is a structural requirement, if so then you have to weld it in. If the crossmember adds no structural integrity to the frame and its' sole purpose is to keep the ****** from drooping down then bolt it in.
The real question then is 'do i have to weld it or can i bolt it?' Now, crawl under there again and re-evaluate.

 

Check post #12. Start your list with those 2.

The Ford frame mentioned in post 7 is a rigid design not supposed to flex like the Chev frame. Welding on the Ford is a whole different story.

 

How did I miss that. Guess I should have said "lots of reports". This is all about welding a Chevy crossmember in so, yup welding on a Ford frame is a different story.