I'm sure your manufactured part is safe, or Gene wouldn't of used it.For some reason NSRA has taken up the gauntlet to save us from our own stupidity....albeit WE have all seen some rides that shouldn't be on the road ( read death traps). To that all I can say is " You can't fix stupid". You cant save people from themselves, the government has been trying that for years(you see where thats got us).
Well stated! If a chain can last 15000 miles on a 9 second Hyabusa it shure as hell can steer a car safely. Some of the early Busa's that were abused broke the main shaft in the transmission not the chain. If your woried about adjustment or stretch install an idler.
No offense to the guy that builds these things, but at the current price tag, I feel safe in thinking there won't be one on anything I own. If the requirement of needing something like this should ever arise, I would be building it myself. Definitely would have a tensioner of some kind and be made from some pretty HD chain & sprockets. I've seen pictures of one of these without a cover, located on the firewall out in the open. That one gave me chills, no way that one was safe. One little rock between the chain & gear would lock up the steering, not a pretty thought. I think I would spend a lot of time finding a different solution. Gene
I'm not questioning you or your skills, I was simply pointing out that for NSRA chain steering is a black and white issue. PERIOD. Since I am not involved in making policy's, I was giving my opinion on the rule, not anyones particular project. There are many on here who say they don't care about NSRA. Well, there are probably as many reading these posts, who do, and might be interested. For me, it's not just an NSRA issue anyway, it's a safety issue. I PERSONALLY THINK A WELL ENGINEERED AND CONSTRUCTED PIECE WOULD PROBABLY NEVER FAIL. BUT For every guy out there that is sure their welds won't break and and their design is fool proof, there's a guy who SEE's your set up and thinks he can whip up the same thing at home, and FAILS, because he isn't a certified welder with great engineering skills. Unfortionately for all of us, he's the guy who's set-up fails, and sends his car out of control into a crowd of people and makes the front page of the paper because him and his hot rod kill a few people. AND HE IS WHO THE RULE IS MEANT FOR. WIZARDFAB The crazy part of all this, is when the Steer clear came out, I asked my state rep about it during our annual kick off meeting, because it had just recieved a SEMA award. I was told chain steering is a black & white issue. I questioned it at that point because it looked like a well built part for a good idea, and if SEMA would give it an award, it must be a good piece. As far as my opinion of it. I think it looks like a well built piece and is a viable option to fitment issues. I have seen steering shafts with improper(swivel sockets), worn out or WAY to many joints in them that a set up like this would probably be safer anyway! Now I'll probably piss off the steering joint people with that comment.....
I'm still surprised the Streetrod guys are against it. Because this piece screams "Street Rod" to me. But I could be wrong about that. Maybe every vintage Grancor catalog has a pic of one in it...
One trip around the block on your Harley and your primary chain has just seen more wear than the chain in a Steerclear will see in a life time.
Hell, I give Wizardfab a lot of credit for making these things and being able to stake his livelihood in this vile litigious society. You can bet whether I buy one or build one, it will be damn safe and protected from debris. I'm quite certain a lot of his cost on these is insurance, independent testing, and lawyers.
You are correct. Because of the war the first 2 months of 47 Chevy sold the 46 models. Most 47s look like the new models. I wondered about the bigger one tons and if those fenders would mix and match. Good idea. One guy said "no pro street", I wonder why. We got so sidetracked, I wonder about 4 links and ladder bars. Are they over kill for street machines or worth the money? As to the rest of the posts, I think it is a well designed safe solution. I would love to get HSRA approved if they changed the rules. The rest of this truck is very solid and well built. I think I would trust this more than a one off drive by wire solution. I think the price is fair for engineering involved. I trust this solution more because it is enclosed and the quality of the product. I seriously doubt this guy is getting rich over these things. I would use it again in the future.
My particular experience had to do with an inspector that was at a cruise that I stopped at for a rest from the road. I guess he was doing it as a favor to someone involved with the cruise. I was in my old '46 on the tail end of a bat trip from the Rio Grand Valley to Oregon. I had built the car a long time before the trip and it was more than road worthy, but visually it was showing some wear. I jumped in the line because it looked like fun. He took one look at the car and said that he surprised this car made it across town and that it would just be a waste of his time to inspect it. Maybe he was having trouble at home or something. I was pretty tired myself so I just lit it off and drove the rest of the way down to my mom's place in the Ozarks, stayed a couple of days, changed my oil and headed back for the border. I know that not all NSRA types have an elitist attitude, but I have run into it enough over the years that those type of people in general normally need to go a long ways for me to be comfortable with them. Not to dispair I don't particularly care for Corvette Club members either. I do know folks from both factions that I like real well.
It is pretty arrogant on NSRA part to say to SEMA that you do not know what is safe or well engineered. I think all of us would love to go to SEMA and win an award with a product we designed. Awesome acheivement for any of us but 5 years later it is considered unsafe by NSRA. What does this guy have to do to get NSRA to approve this? I guess SEMA does not know or understand what is safe in a car or a truck.
I would think not to many NSRA bureaucratic minds can carry anyone's toolbox, and certainly would resent one telling me how to engineer pretty much anything. I appreciate good design as much as anyone, but not every solution to a problem is always simple. ( even though "The best design is the simplist that works.") I would use one of those manufactured products, which look pretty nice to me, on my hotrod. And also think the timing chain idea is slick as well. Just depends on the situation.
Ok chain stretch, I love this question... I am sure that I can change your mind on this one. Our chain can handle 2100 LBS. so we need to talk about the forces (torque) that are used in the steering of a car. To show just how little torque it takes to turn a car I went out to my full size Chevy truck and at a dead stop on dry pavement and not running (no power to the steering) it takes less than 30 LBS. to turn the wheels. I measured this by using a torque wrench on the steering wheel nut. Now if you think about how much force it takes to turn the wheels while driving down the road you will realize that it is almost nothing. We test regularly and a unit is put in a machine that spins them back and forth at 1500 RPM for 12 hours. That is a total of over 1,000,000 revs. we disassemble, inspect and measure the chain and find no elongation, O, zipp, nada, As far as real world testing we have 4 units that are in the 200MPH club (Gene Winfield was the first), a lot of drag racers, and a couple of stadium race trucks, thousands on the street and after over 6 years not one has ever failed.
There is a story on the old time stock car circut of a pretty famous driver finishing a RACE with a visegrip for a steering wheel, wish I could remember who it was...
I have no horse in this race. Like I said, I see this as mostly a Street Rod piece, and I have no real love for most street Rods. Its certainly not a Rat Rod piece, I doubt a RR builder would pay the price. (he'd cobble one up out of the left over parts out of a 200,000mile 305 smog motor...) And its obviously not Trad. What I'd be interested in, as far as demonstrations, is the amount of torque a grown man can put on the column. ( get a weight lifter or an arm wresler to do the test, to really drive the point home ) And how much force that is on the chain, when you calculate that back using the diameter of the sprocket. And make a fixture where it bounces back and forth with an occilating force on one end and keep it fixed on the other. (to try and create the spot with the most play on old steering boxes, center position) Let this go through a couple of milion cycles. If its as overbuilt as you say it is, it should pass with flying colors.
This is BRILLIANT! How have I not heard about this? What rock have I been living under? My roadster just started looking a LOT roomier!
Gigantor Your roadster could be a lot roomier if you would stretch it and widen it a bit. A couple inches is a ton buddy.
I've been thinking of adding some inches to the doors, but this steering thingamajig would free up some serious leg/knee/foot room and that is huge... just like my legs, feet and knees! That picture on their site that shows a dude who is 6'7" sitting all stretched out in a 34 Ford convinced me that this was a good idea.
I think the main issue that has come out here regarding the NSRA position on this is their arrogance. To say it is black and white and that the answer is no is just that. Just plain arrogant. SEMA gave it awards and accept it. The manufacturer has offered to prove it's design and capabilities. Again I place my "stubborn old fools" label on the NSRA people responsible for this closed minded approach.
Maybe they were put off by a guy who says he can measure LBS with a Torque Wrench ( torque wrenches measure things like Newton Meters or Foot Ponds. You can calculate that back to Lbs ) Or maybe the right palm needed to be greased. Who knows what is going on there. I have no idea how their system of acceptance works...
Metalshapes says; I also have no dog in this fight,but, probably a lot of parts on many cars here couldn't take that abuse
Thats the whole point.. We know an old F100 steeringbox cant, for example. ( it will get play in the center position ) The wear compared to that would be interesting information...
Perhaps the steering box in a '33 Chevy has already taken that abuse. The whole NSRA thing is really a mute point unless they are important as an organization to the person buying and or installing the drive. I think that it is an inovative solution to an old problem. It may be nothing that I need for sure but it is one option for many on here that are bigger than I am.
I admit, that was a cheap shot... But as a unit of measurement, it does matter. Edit. Acctually that post had two cheap shots in it. I probabably should have filled it with a bunch of smilies...
Well that's not hardly fair you don't put smileys when you take a poke at me. Hey Mr Shapes I got a question for ya. I know nothing to do with the thread. Which is proper Ft. Lbs. or pound feet?
The Jalopy Journal
