Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

exwestracer,

Hello again,

Thanks for keeping in touch and makin’ sure I don’t put my foot too far in my mouth,

charie

 

LB+1

Yah, yah, yah...you’re like that cagey old hawk that circles in the sky and keeps all the other critters on their toes.

Keep on keepin’ on.

charlie

 

Best of luck to you and Bret.

 

Here is some info on the ignition distributor we will be using. As you can see it is based on a Vertex/Ronco/Scinilla magneto housing. I’m not sure of the history of the traditional auto racing Vertex magneto, but it was originally a product of Scintilla S. A. of Solothurn, Switzerland. The company was founded in 1917 and made magnetos from the beginning,

The Scintilla company used the word Vertex for its magnets early on and was very successful as a maker of magnetos for aircraft engines. Charles Lindberg’s Spirit of St. Louis was equipped with a Scintilla magneto. Sometime in the twenties Scintilla licensed their aircraft products to the Magneto Division of the Bendix Aviation Corp. During WWII many of the large aircraft were equipped the Scintilla Magnetos (B17, B29, P38 and more). All that remains of Scintilla now is a line of power tools made by Bosch, Inc.

At some point the Vertex/Scintilla Company designed a smaller automotive product, which is a forerunner to the magneto hot rodders know as a Vertex (see the old magazine ads). The units were used on several Indy 500 winners including the Boyle Special 8CTF Maserati that won the 500 in 1939 and 1940. The F. T. Griswold Compay in Wayne, PA marketed Swiss-made mags in the late 1940s and (I guess) early 50s. The Ronco Company acquired the US licensing rights for automobile magnetos sometime during the 1950s; Ronco was located near Philadelphia, in Blue Bell, PA.

Go to this page for more cool old magneto ads:

http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2009/05/vertex-magneto-ads.html

Joe Hunt founded a company in Los Angeles during the 50s and had good success converting Vertex mags for a number of racing applications. The Joe Hunt Company still sells magnetos that look very similar to a Vertex. Today magnetos carrying the name "Vertex" are sold by Taylor Cable Company, which acquired the rights to the name in 1994.

I attached some shots of the new digital CDI distributor fabricated by Pat Mason of Mason Racing Ignitions. Externally it looks like a standard Vertex magneto except that there is a coil wire routed out the bottom of the housing. I asked Pat to run the wire out the bottom so that the coil wire would be hidden when it is mounted on the Hemi.

http://www.masonracingignitions.com/

The new engine management system requires a “crank position” signal and a number one cylinder signal. Pat fabricated a magnetic sensor (green arrowhead) to designate #1 cylinder, which is situated just beneath the stock Vertex rotor. The standard Vertex rotor maintains its normal function. The crank position reluctor is hidden in the body of the unit and its electrical lead is seen exiting the base of the housing. The magneto base is a standard Vertex Mopar base assembly fitted with the correct shaft length for a D500 Hemi (which by the way is the same length as shafts for 331 and 354 Chrysler Hemis). The last photo is a close-up of an old vintage Ronco serial number tag. Pat had a number of NOS tags available; and since I don’t remember ever having seeing this particular version, I chose to have it mounted. Also, according to Pat this the correct logo for a mid-50s hot rod. So, after all this effort the new “Mag” will share a bit of heritage with the Scintilla Vertex magneto used on Wilbur Shaw’s 8CTF Maserati — the winningest car in the history of the Indy 500.

Oh yeah…any suggestions for what I should stamp in the serial number windows on the Ronco tag?

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

OOOPS,

I previewed my last post and all the photos were properly uploaded and visible, but when I just rechecked I don't see the images....???

trakrodstr

 

Second try batch #1 of magneto photos

 

Second try batch #2 of magneto photos

 

How about the dollar amount you've spent on the car. That would make it a high production # I think!
(sweet conversion by the way!)

 

exwestracer,

I would be embarrassed to divulge that info. Further, I don't know the amount. I resolved long ago to not keep track. My rule was to always pay out of pocket. No CREDIT. Why do you think this project has taken 16.5 years?

Regarding the quality of the conversion, it seems that guys from Pennsylvania do great work.

I could stamp the Hemi's motor number or D500 or ??

charlie

 

Charlie, That Mag conversion is very neat and clean. Bet most would not figure out the conversion. Looking forward to that Hemi roaring to life with renewed vigor.

Dave

 

Dave,

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the compliments, I too am looking forward to a properly running engine.

Brett, just dropped off the new fake “fuel block”, which we will use as a vacuum plenum. This part also came out super nice...my hat’s off to Brett because he is not a trained machinist and likely had to spend extra time on the task. Brett took a bunch of photos showing the fabrication of the vacuum plenum. I’ll likely post the photos this weekend.

I hope it’s warmer in the Antelope Valley than it is in KC.

Stay warm,

charlie

 

Sequence numbers are almost always non-negative, and typically start at zero or one.
"D500 - MX1" Maserodi Experimental 1

 

OK, now we're talkin'... great suggestion, which I will take under serious advisement.

Thanks LB+1.

 

Fabricating a new vacuum plenum:

Brett and I mocked up the alum block (2"x2"x5"), on the engine, and made sure it would not interfere with the throttle linkage and would not appear too bulky. Once we determined that the general size would work Brett took the block to his shop.

His first step was to make as large a cavity as possible while leaving sufficient wall thickness for tapping in pipe threads to mount the “fuel” line nipples. The first shot shows a cutting tool that is slowly milling away the aluminum. Brett has a programmable milling vise so he can set the boundaries of the cutting path and the vise will feed the work to the cutting tool. You can see that he left about a quarter inch wall thickness at each face of the rectangular block. The third photo give a sense of the depth of the cavity.

The final image shows the valley plate Jack Presse made years ago to hide the EFI nozzles. This shot depicts the underside of the valley plate. The red arrowhead denotes one of four threaded holes that are used to mount the EFI fuel rails, which are not shown.

There is a small aluminum plate sitting on the valley cover (green arrowhead); I used Photoshop to pseudo-color the plate (aqua) so it would be easy for you readers to discern. It is simply a thin sheet of aluminum that will be welded to the bottom of the alum block to form a 3-dimensional cavity (vacuum chamber). The photo shows that Brett is laying out the work so that he can mark the position of mounting holes for the new “fuel block”.

I will post more photos of this mini-project pretty soon.

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Thought - Are you assigning part numbers to all manufactured one off parts?
Then a numbered working drawing - blueprint? I would use the (MX1) code on
everything.
Somewhere in time this would make (M) more interesting say 20+ years down the
road. There again just a thought

 

LB+1

I had not thought of assigning part numbers, but I like your idea for the “Ronco/Vertex” distributor.

Since reading your suggestion I was thinking that I might use the designation I chose for the Maserodi emblem, which was a take-off on the nomenclature that Maserati used for their cars. In those days all Maserati cars were racing machines, no street cars. The 1939-40 Boyle Special Indy car was a Maserati GP machine; that particular series was designated 8CTF for eight (8) Cylinder fixed-head ('Testa Fissa' in Italian).

For my Maserodi emblem I used 8CVTR for 8 Cylinder, V-configuration, Track Roadster.

Thus:

D500 - 8CVTR, in the upper register of the Ronco tag and Maserodi Experimental #001 in the lower register (see the Ronco tag in the last image of Post #729).

What do you think?

Does anyone else have any opinions on this admittedly minor issue?

charlie

 

Come on somebody speak up - I feel like I come across as to - matter of fact - on things - I do not mean to be.

I have always looked at the (M) as a engineered road racing 50's era Hot Rod.
We all know Hot Rod's were not just built for the Salt or Dry Lakes and Drag Racing.

It's like if it is not a period correct on 32 rails flat head powered then it can't
be a real HAMB Hot Rod - Bull Crap!

 

Here are a few more (probably too many) photos of the vacuum plenum. The first image shows the bottom of the part with the cavity finished. Next the nearly finished part with the pipe threads visible. The next batch shows the part sitting on the “valley cover” in the engine bay as viewed from the front, from overhead and from the driver’s side. The idea is that the vacuum plenum looks like an old Hilborn fuel block/barrel valve assembly.

The next group shows the part sitting on the valley plate, then some close-ups of the four “fuel” ports, which are really vacuum ports, the single port on the end will feed the EFI vacuum sensor. The final photo shows the bottom of the part were Brett welded the alum plate to close the box and form the vacuum cavity.

 

Next group.

 

Nice! You aren't by any chance making 2 of everything are you?

 

brigrat,

Unfortunately we are making two of everything — but not in the sense you mean. Are you interested in the old EFI parts? I'll make you a great deal, and remember...shipping is free.

Brett, did a great job didn't he? BTW, he insisted that this was his personal contribution to the TR project and would only accept $ for the aluminum block.

What-a-guy! HOORAY for Brett.

charlie

 

Charlie, That vacuum plenum is more than worth the price of admission. Nothing like hand fabbed parts ! I believe they really make the part or the car.

Dave

 

Time well spent. Awsome

 

Thanks Dave, I'll pass your praise on to Brett.

Paul,

I hope the time ends up being well spent, we'll see. Be sure and stick with the Maserodi thread to find out what happens.

I can hardly wait to find out myself...

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

It's been a week or so since I posted any info.

I just got the "fuel block" back from the plating shop where I had them anodize the part. In fact, I took the valley cover back too, so that the shop could make the two aluminum surfaces look as similar as possible.

The photos show a pretty accurate representation of the finish as it will appear on the TR.

On a different front, Brett will be working on the TR during the day for three days over the holidays. Also, to make absolutely sure we are leaving no stone unturned in our efforts to get the TR running properly Brett recommended that we buy some brand new Ford Motorsports 30lb/hr injector nozzles and pitch the old nozzles. I agreed completely. I want this new effort to go as smoothly as possible; so, new injectors it will be.

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Charie,
Very soon, I hope to see you post of your's and Brett's success in ironing this out.

 

31Vicky with a hemi,

I sure hope so too. I have had to "retell" this TR Project story too many times; at some point I began to feel like I'm living in a automotive "ground-hog" day, where I keep repeating myself, time after time.

At least the day(s) of reckoning are drawing near.

Best wishes to you and all the other readers for a safe, happy and peaceful Holiday Season.

trakrodstr
aka charlie

 

Nice look on the color - I sure hope the "Pressure" is on --------- As in fuel! {;-)

 

LB+1

You can say that again. I have a feeling that we are going to get things right this time. I can tell Brett is enthusiastic too.

It will be nice to be working on nitty-gritty stuff over the holidays and not waiting for parts or horsing around with small stuff.

Keep your fingers crossed.

charlie

 

Gee Wiz - Charlie my fingers hurt!